Your thoughts on "Ich-Free" tanks - IS IT POSSIBLE?

[MarkoD]

I've been on both sides. And I have lost more fish my 25 gallon quarantine than when I add fish directly to my 180 gallon display

[Coralgurl]

I lost my coral beauty in my dt to ich just over a month ago. Other fish started showing signs so I set up a qt and moved them over. Started treating with copper, within 2 hours, clowns died. I did not overdose, I was extremely careful with dosing. Then I lost 3 more fish. They were eating well, looked ok and one by one died. Daily 30% water changes, I have 2 left. I will be placing the cardinal back in dt this weekend, chromis has developed something under it's fin so going to try treating him. I will not qt another fish. I think the stress of catching them to move caused more harm than good. I feed with selcon and garlic daily.

[Lampshade]

I agree with most on here aboutt he QT. The stress of being in QT is worse in many cases than the stress of a new tank. why do it twice? A BIG reason to do it is in an agressive system with fresh caught fish. They are not healthy enough to be in the DT yet because of the travel time, and will not last.

Easy solution, buy healthy fish :P

I also believe that ich is in every tank, If you put together an entire ecosystem of single celled creatures up to full size fish and managed to filter out one single celled creature in the mean time, you deserve a Nobel Prize.

[marie]

Originally Posted by Lampshade

I also believe that ich is in every tank, If you put together an entire ecosystem of single celled creatures up to full size fish and managed to filter out one single celled creature in the mean time, you deserve a Nobel Prize.

Except that particular creature can't survive for an extended period of time without a host (fish) so if everything wet that goes into your tank is kept for a minimum of 6 weeks in a fishless system, then Voila.......no ich

[rastaangel]

My tank has no ick in it, never has and NEVER will... But I go to extreme lenghts
language removed

[MKLKT]

Originally Posted by Lampshade

I agree with most on here aboutt he QT. The stress of being in QT is worse in many cases than the stress of a new tank. why do it twice? A BIG reason to do it is in an agressive system with fresh caught fish. They are not healthy enough to be in the DT yet because of the travel time, and will not last.

Easy solution, buy healthy fish :P

I also believe that ich is in every tank, If you put together an entire ecosystem of single celled creatures up to full size fish and managed to filter out one single celled creature in the mean time, you deserve a Nobel Prize.

This is more or less my view as well, and I share Marko's too.

I personally just believe in having a robust balance of all classes of animal in my tank from the bacterial level up to fish and coral. Keeping healthy levels of necessary nutrients in the water, low stress environment with ample area to have territory and taking care to understand what environment the fish came from previously.

It's kinda like how certain corals really don't need acclimation at all; temperature at the most. Certain animals lack the necessary ability to shift salt levels from between their skin and the outside water and require a prolonged acclimation for that reason. Blanket methods are just a waste of time and likely give a false sense of security. The same is true of quarantine and using a lot of additives.

Be responsible in your purchases, use a LFS that follows proper methods of receiving livestock. If anything THAT should be your quarantine, no? Put the fish on hold/put money down and pick it up after sufficient time.

I'd imagine a quarantine tank is the most stressful environment that the fish will experience on its trip to your tank. Your heart is in the right place but I'm not a believer.

[daniella3d]

I don't know what you guys are doing because I never lost a fish in quarantine. At some point I had a hippo tang, a kole tang and a clownfish in quarantine in a 20 gallons tank for 5 weeks.

I did 5 weeks quarantine on my copperband and this was the perfect opportunity to teach it to eat well and fatten him up since he was so skinny and infested with flukes.

How can one lose a fish in quarantine? too far gone with the ich parasite so they can't come back? I had fish in quarantine with ich and they all make it in top shape through the hyposalinity process.

To much copper? ammonia? what? Saltwater fish are tough, they don't just die from being in a small tank for a few weeks. They endure like 48 hours of being bounced around in small bags in their peee when they are shipped. And what about how they are often kept while waiting to be bought? they sometimes spend days or weeks in small containers...yet they survive to reach our homes.

currently I have 2 clownfish and a mandarin in quarantine for 3 weeks. I am teaching the mandarin to eat different type of food and I put my female clownfish in quarantine with the new smaller male to make sure they would go well together before putting the new one in the tank. It would be a nightmare to fetch him out of the tank if they would not be compatible and would be fighting so it is a lot easier to bring the female in with the new fish (I can treat fast if something come up) and see how they get along together, right there.

Asking the store to keep the fish for a while is a moot point, because at anytime that fish can be contaminated by any new addition and although it would seem healthy it might just have cought velvet or other nasty disease minutes or hours before you go pick it up. Unless you buy from a reputated seller fish that go through very strict quarantine process like liveaquaria diver's den, it's a very big risk to trust LFS for quarantine. Just too many fish and a connected system for most.

The way I see it, it's a lot less trouble to quarantine apparently healthy fish than to have to catch all the fish from the main tank and once they are really sick it's a lot harder on them all. Most people wait until their fish start dying before they decide to catch them and treat them but they are already too far gone.

[MMAX]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

I don't know what you guys are doing because I never lost a fish in quarantine. At some point I had a hippo tang, a kole tang and a clownfish in quarantine in a 20 gallons tank for 5 weeks.

I did 5 weeks quarantine on my copperband and this was the perfect opportunity to teach it to eat well and fatten him up since he was so skinny and infested with flukes.

How can one lose a fish in quarantine? too far gone with the ich parasite so they can't come back? I had fish in quarantine with ich and they all make it in top shape through the hyposalinity process.

To much copper? ammonia? what? Saltwater fish are tough, they don't just die from being in a small tank for a few weeks. They endure like 48 hours of being bounced around in small bags in their peee when they are shipped. And what about how they are often kept while waiting to be bought? they sometimes spend days or weeks in small containers...yet they survive to reach our homes.

currently I have 2 clownfish and a mandarin in quarantine for 3 weeks. I am teaching the mandarin to eat different type of food and I put my female clownfish in quarantine with the new smaller male to make sure they would go well together before putting the new one in the tank. It would be a nightmare to fetch him out of the tank if they would not be compatible and would be fighting so it is a lot easier to bring the female in with the new fish (I can treat fast if something come up) and see how they get along together, right there.

The way I see it, it's a lot less trouble to quarantine apparently healthy fish than to have to catch all the fish from the main tank and once they are really sick it's a lot harder on them all. Most people wait until their fish start dying before they decide to catch them and treat them but they are already too far gone.

Here we go again....

[MarkoD]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

I don't know what you guys are doing because I never lost a fish in quarantine. At some point I had a hippo tang, a kole tang and a clownfish in quarantine in a 20 gallons tank for 5 weeks.

I did 5 weeks quarantine on my copperband and this was the perfect opportunity to teach it to eat well and fatten him up since he was so skinny and infested with flukes.

How can one lose a fish in quarantine? too far gone with the ich parasite so they can't come back? I had fish in quarantine with ich and they all make it in top shape through the hyposalinity process.

To much copper? ammonia? what? Saltwater fish are tough, they don't just die from being in a small tank for a few weeks. They endure like 48 hours of being bounced around in small bags in their peee when they are shipped. And what about how they are often kept while waiting to be bought? they sometimes spend days or weeks in small containers...yet they survive to reach our homes.

currently I have 2 clownfish and a mandarin in quarantine for 3 weeks. I am teaching the mandarin to eat different type of food and I put my female clownfish in quarantine with the new smaller male to make sure they would go well together before putting the new one in the tank. It would be a nightmare to fetch him out of the tank if they would not be compatible and would be fighting so it is a lot easier to bring the female in with the new fish (I can treat fast if something come up) and see how they get along together, right there.

Asking the store to keep the fish for a while is a moot point, because at anytime that fish can be contaminated by any new addition and although it would seem healthy it might just have cought velvet or other nasty disease minutes or hours before you go pick it up. Unless you buy from a reputated seller fish that go through very strict quarantine process like liveaquaria diver's den, it's a very big risk to trust LFS for quarantine. Just too many fish and a connected system for most.

The way I see it, it's a lot less trouble to quarantine apparently healthy fish than to have to catch all the fish from the main tank and once they are really sick it's a lot harder on them all. Most people wait until their fish start dying before they decide to catch them and treat them but they are already too far gone.

the point is that putting a fish in quarantine will stress it out more than if you put it directly in the large display tank. Given that its less stressed in the display tank, it is more likely to start eating and in result more likely to fight off any parasite or disease naturally. Like you said, "saltwater fish are tough". they dont need chemicals or hyposalinity, they need to feel comfortable and fed. Nature then takes its course

[daniella3d]

They are less stressed in the display tank? are you sure of that? what if they have to adjust to other fish and being chased around and attacked?

Why would a well setup quarantine tank being any more stressful than going into a display tank? a tank is a tank and it's not the ocean (although that to should be quite stressfull in the surviving predators etc process). The fish is alone and does not have to witstand other fish attack or adjust to other fish territory so how can that be stressful? Given the QT is large enough and there is some hiding place or liverock, how is that more stressful?

If they don't need hypo or chemical then why do they die from ich in the DT? How many people here put new fish in their display tank only to see them being chased around by other fish for a week and sometime more?

yeah yeah...I know, here we go again you will say but those are valid points.

But what about the existing fish?

When you introduce a new fish within your community of existing fish you run the risk of losing them all, doesn't that bother you? If your fish are healthy why would you risk their lives and make them sick by adding a new fish carrying a disease? I love my fish and don't want to see them dead or sick. Doesn't that make sense?

Originally Posted by MarkoD

the point is that putting a fish in quarantine will stress it out more than if you put it directly in the large display tank. Given that its less stressed in the display tank, it is more likely to start eating and in result more likely to fight off any parasite or disease naturally. Like you said, "saltwater fish are tough". they dont need chemicals or hyposalinity, they need to feel comfortable and fed. Nature then takes its course