MP10 ES Vs Tunze 6055...Decisions Decisions

[DiverDude]

That thread is about replacing worn bearings. If you have a new unit, the noise it makes is the noise it makes (although it may just be that the bearing quality used is not very good and putting better ones will make it more quiet).

I too am torn on the wavebox vs MP40 decision. The wavebox is overpriced (as is all Tunze stuff but the quality and durability is impressive. The Vertex units have great features but to make the most of them, you need 2 or more and at THAT price, the wavebox becomes a deal. Add to that the fact that it's pretty much a given that the bearings in the wetside will need replacing at some point and I'm leaning towards the wavebox -or perhaps even a DIY version.

Originally Posted by Madreefer

I got this from Bluetang<3. Also Christy tried this but had a little mishap.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1901337

[Madreefer]

The only noise my vortechs makes is from the dryside. There was no noise when I first got the first one, after a month of use I started to hear it from 30 ft away. So if you want to call it worn out bearings so be it. I call it chitty bearings. I bought a used one and I can hear it from the same distance now as well. Trying to get warranty in Canada is an absolute joke so rather than go threw all the bullchit like myself and others have had than I would recommend you do it yourself if the dryside starts to irritate you. Like I said earlier I really like the Vortechs and all of the features that they come with. But for $1000 for 2 pumps you really should'nt hear the pumps over the surround sound TV's in most peoples home. Alot of guys say that they only hear the whirr of the wetside, not in my case and i'm hard of hearing to begin with. It's happened with 2 out of the 3 pumps i've experienced. Sorry not trying to turn this in to a rant, just trying to help out.

[abcha0s]

Originally Posted by DiverDude

I too am torn on the wavebox vs MP40 decision. The wavebox is overpriced (as is all Tunze stuff but the quality and durability is impressive. The Vertex units have great features but to make the most of them, you need 2 or more and at THAT price, the wavebox becomes a deal. Add to that the fact that it's pretty much a given that the bearings in the wetside will need replacing at some point and I'm leaning towards the wavebox -or perhaps even a DIY version.

Waves are supplemental flow. The interesting thing is that they are virtually unaffected by whatever crazy flow patterns your powerheads create. A wave by itself would not create the flow required for a healthy high flow system.

For pure wave generation, you can't beat a wavebox. It is purpose built for generating waves, and it works very well. The trouble with using Vortechs for waves is that you can't use them for waves and flow at the same time. You could rotate through modes, but you can't do both things at the same time.

Ideally, you would have a wave system and powerheads. The wave system could be a wavebox or two Vortechs. If you go the Vortech route, this implies an ideal minimum of 4 Vortechs - two for waves and two for flow. However, if you put 4 Vortechs in your tank, there are much more interesting things you can do with them other than waves and random flow. My guess is that with four Vortechs you would give up on the wave and setup another type of flow dynamic. While possible, I don't think many Vortech owners actually use them to create a sustained wave.

The only thing I don't like about the Tunze waveboxes is that they are louder than I expected. I'm not sure if I have mine installed wrong, but it is slightly louder than my Vortechs.

At the end of the day, if you want a wave then use a wavebox. Building a wavebox into your tank design is actually fairly easy to do and may help conceal the box, but it's not a big money saver - you still need the pump and controller and may end up buying a Tunze wavebox just to get the parts. If your not trying to be creative in concealing the box, then just buy the Tunze.

- Brad

[DiverDude]

Brad,

Thanks for this; I was under the impression that the wave motion would replace the need for other forms of flow in the tank. I guess I have more research to do on this.

[mike31154]

It's pretty much a given that a motor on the outside of your tank is going to be more audible than a fully submerged unit. If the sound is a concern, go overkill and get an MP40 for your 3 foot tank, the footprint is not that much bigger than an MP10 and you'll be able to run it at a lower speed, minimizing the sound of the dry side. Creating a wave with them is the mode in which you're going to hear them the most, since they ramp up from idle to 100% in short pulses. Or stay with your Tunzes.

I have two MP40W ES running on my 77 gal and I use the EcoSmart TSM (Tidal Swell Mode) with the speed setting up to about 85%. This is similar to the Reefcrest & Lagoon random flow modes available before the ES drivers were introduced. Ideally this mode is used with 3 pumps, one on each end & one at the back, but it works quite well with two on a narrower tank such as mine. In this mode the pump speeds vary over a period of several hours, so at times the sound level is higher and when the speed lowers, so does the sound. I don't have a problem with the sound my VorTechs make, my surround sound system has no problem masking them, but clearly they're not for people wanting to keep an ultra quiet tank. Not sure why someone would void a warranty and risk destroying an expensive dry side in an attempt to lower the sound a few decibels by changing the bearings on their own. Like any other component with moving parts, they are subject to wear and will at some point require service or replacement. This is actually where the VorTech wet side has an advantage IMO, since the wear items are inexpensive and easily user replaced. Dry side is best left alone and sent back for repair. How many other pumps or powerheads out there include internal sensors which will shut the pump down if it overheats? Not that that's a common occurence, but features like this do not come cheap and could easily prevent more serious consequences. My two VorTechs have been running without issue for more than two years.

From time to time, when the mood strikes me, I switch from TSM mode to NTM (Nutrient Transport Mode). Two presses of the Mode button, and away we go in short pulse mode on both pumps with the accompanying rise in sound levels. This creates the wave action sought after by some hobbyists and it works as advertised, pulling all kinds of gunk from the bottom & out of the rocks. After about an hour or so of that, Mode button twice and it's back to TSM mode, less sound and more of a random, chaotic flow pattern. Every year for the past three, I've managed to pick up a used VorTech someone was selling. The first one I purchased new. Spread out the cost and I now have two spares & flexibility for future tank upgrade. Works for me.

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by abcha0s

Waves are supplemental flow. The interesting thing is that they are virtually unaffected by whatever crazy flow patterns your powerheads create. A wave by itself would not create the flow required for a healthy high flow system.

For pure wave generation, you can't beat a wavebox. It is purpose built for generating waves, and it works very well. The trouble with using Vortechs for waves is that you can't use them for waves and flow at the same time. You could rotate through modes, but you can't do both things at the same time.

Ideally, you would have a wave system and powerheads. The wave system could be a wavebox or two Vortechs. If you go the Vortech route, this implies an ideal minimum of 4 Vortechs - two for waves and two for flow. However, if you put 4 Vortechs in your tank, there are much more interesting things you can do with them other than waves and random flow. My guess is that with four Vortechs you would give up on the wave and setup another type of flow dynamic. While possible, I don't think many Vortech owners actually use them to create a sustained wave.

The only thing I don't like about the Tunze waveboxes is that they are louder than I expected. I'm not sure if I have mine installed wrong, but it is slightly louder than my Vortechs.

At the end of the day, if you want a wave then use a wavebox. Building a wavebox into your tank design is actually fairly easy to do and may help conceal the box, but it's not a big money saver - you still need the pump and controller and may end up buying a Tunze wavebox just to get the parts. If your not trying to be creative in concealing the box, then just buy the Tunze.

- Brad

My Nano wavebox was loud as well. And you actually maybe answered the volume question on how loud the vortechs are. You're right as well about needing supplementary flow. When I first had my wavebox you could see it just lift all the crud out of the rock but if I turned off the powerheads the crud would just sort of "wiggle" in place.

[Madreefer]

Sorry but I guess i'm kinda hijacking this thread. This is what one of my Vortechs sounds like, the one that was replaced on warranty sounded like this. I took this off of the other site and the owner was told to contact Ecotech. 3 pumps and 2 have sounded this way. Maybe I got ones from a bad batch. My reason for replacing the bearings myself is due to time it takes for Canadian customers to get warranty work. The ones I will be replacing are in a used pump that I bought from a fellow canreefer so no receipt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JdobfMnfa8

[Slick Fork]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

Sorry but I guess i'm kinda hijacking this thread. This is what one of my Vortechs sounds like, the one that was replaced on warranty sounded like this. I took this off of the other site and the owner was told to contact Ecotech. 3 pumps and 2 have sounded this way. Maybe I got ones from a bad batch. My reason for replacing the bearings myself is due to time it takes for Canadian customers to get warranty work. The ones I will be replacing are in a used pump that I bought from a fellow canreefer so no receipt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JdobfMnfa8

Don't worry about hijacking... I appreciate all the comments good and bad. I saw your threads trying to get these issues resolved... I'd be banging my head against the wall too. I have dealt with that distributor before and didn't have a good experience either. If I do go with the Vortech I will make sure I go with one distributed by aqua-digital.

One thing that's becoming clear, people either love them or hate them... very few in between.

[Palmer]

I definitly would not be happy if my Vortech sounded like yours Madreefer. I hate manufacturer problems especially when they happen to good products. When my tunze osmolator gave me issues I was really miffed....

[DiverDude]

There seems to be an underlying theme here and that is that Vortech owners like the product in that it provides a rich feature set. On the other side of the coin, they feel that a FIVE HUNDRED DOLLAR pump should be of a quality that should not have inferior bearings in it that are either noisy or fail after a a year or so of use.

I have to say that I agree with that, 100%

If I'm honest, that's what makes me anxious about buying the product. AND, it should be added, I have a full shop and changing the bearings on either side does not scare me in the least; I just don't see why I should have to when I'm spending that kind of money for a pump.