I hate this hobby.

[MitchM]

Take it as a sign...
We all need to approach this hobby differently.

Mitch

[AJ_77]

Sorry to hear that Brad - can't imagine how I'd be freaking out in that situation, probably with much anger/frustration though. Do you see and end to this? Or is it going to be you and Steve supporting your local LFS for a few months to come?
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Mitch: what do you mean?

[Cap'n]

Originally Posted by Carpentersreef

Also..

Month after month I see Tank-of-the-month articles featuring tanks that are 50% water and 50% LR/fish/corals. Crammed full of "life". It's not representative of the oceans, so why would they be as stable and self-sustaining?

Mitch

This has been my thought for quite a long time, and was confirmed with snorkelling in Hawaii. My first impression was "Man, is this ever dirty!". There was a layer of sludge covering the ocean floor and bits of crud floating everywhere. The other main thing I noticed was the distance I had to travel between points of interest. A cluster of rock and reef here with its accompanying fauna, then a few (or several) metres away another similar formation. Even in the most densely populated reefs I never saw anything close to the concentration of many tanks.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to get that much life to thrive in such a self contained environment takes a massive amount of fine tuning. The more points to tune, the easier it is to get out of line. And to keep that system pristinely clean as well...

There are those who drive a Ferrari and are comfortable with the mechanics bills and frequent tune-ups that come with it. I drive an old VW Golf diesel, and love it.

[MitchM]

Originally Posted by AJ_77

-----------------
Mitch: what do you mean?

I guess what I'm trying to say, and I don't mean to offend anybody, is that we pay so much attention to the "higher order" creatures - fish, corals, anemones... that we tend to forget about all the bacteria, algae, pods, various worms that are just as much part of the reef setting as anything else.

The very things that give us all so much trouble.

Except that the ratio of complex organisms to the simpler variety is so out of whack in our small systems that the balance swings so dramatically it winds up overwhelming one area/lifeform or another.
We really need to reduce the amount of "higher life" in our tanks, IMO.

In my case, in my main tank, I've got a nice carpet of cyano going on right now, even though I've changed my flow patterns to blow right over the affected sand. I know that hair algae isn't far behind, even with my big skimmer. Flatworms are there, too.
In my sump, however, nothing. Clean as a whistle. 6 or 7" sand bed in my sump, 2 or 3 inches now in my main tank. Why cyano in one and not the other? I'm not exactly sure, but I think I can say with certainty that I just plain have too many animals/corals in my set-up. I'm not upset about it. It is what it is. The ecosystem (if I can call it that) is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

We wind up overloading the necessary support system for our fish, corals and anemones.
No amount of equipment can make up for that.
These aren't hydroponic vegetables.

Mitch

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by AJ_77

Do you see and end to this?

Oh ya, I see an end to this real soon. If I had the market in Victoria to be able to sell all my animals quickly, they would be gone already.
Unfortunately, there isn't enough demand to sell all my remaining corals, so I have to watch them fade, one at a time. If I keep the tank running, it looks like it might end up as a FOWLR tank....

Anyone that shows up at my door with 4 grand can walk away with the whole thing right now...

[EmilyB]

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by EmilyB

And bring a truck....

[EmilyB]

No, no and no. I've been in this hobby six years and NO. There is something wrong if it is going that badly. IMO.

[Delphinus]

Getting a little off topic, but, Tim that fits with mostly my memories of snorkeling in Hawaii. I understand the real reefs you need to go quite a bit further out. Basically all I remember is fish. Congrats on the new addition BTW.

However, you want to see jam packed coral reef, you have to see the Great Barrier Reef. Even the most overcrowded tank does not compare. I found the Carribean (Cozumel/Mayan Riviera area) to be not too bad as well, but more softies like gorgs and such mixed in.

And Mitch, I've never really been bothered by the littler things. It's the big things that cause me trouble. So almost exactly the opposite of what you say. Although I do agree with some of your points. And as for the anemone, yes, it needs a bigger tank. I still maintain that for minimum risk however that it be a specialized setup. But I've come to terms with what's happened. One cannot hold an animal in contempt for being in its nature. It's like I've tried to warn others in the past: this species get ridiculously large. I thought I had it under control but I was wrong. I will tailor future decisions accordingly, and basically take the bitter pill of taking my own advice.

[Aquattro]

Deb, you're right. Something is wrong, and after 12 months of trying to solve the puzzle, I give up. Probably not permanently, but for now, I just give up. At this point there is no way I can sell the contents of the tank, so realistically, I just get to watch things fade away. I'm not intervening any more, so whatever happens, happens.
Like I said above, it may be a FOWLR by February...