Need Help Choosing a Lighting Solution

[fishytime]

besides....just because he is new to the hobby doesnt mean he should cheap out on equipment....we all know that you get what you pay for in this hobby and most people would have liked to know this before throwing $ away on something they were not going to be happy with

[lastlight]

If the poster wants to invest then I recommend the mitras problem solved!

[Myka]

You can disagree, I don't mind. It would be a pretty boring world if we all agreed.

I don't think buying T5s is cheaping out on equipment. If someone really has the money burning a hole in the pocket spend it on a Bubble King skimmer instead of LED lighting - that will pay off better for a newbie in the end than some fancy schmancy lighting setup. I seem to remember SOMEONE's (looking at you fishytime) beautiful SPS tank that was lit by T5s.

Considering the average reef hobbyist has been in the hobby for 18 months it is safe to say that the average reef hobbyist jumps ship before ever doing too much. I don't see why a newbie should spend thousands of dollars on lighting with a high risk of not being in the hobby 2 years down the road.

I have T5s on my LPS/Zoa tank, and I have zero interest in "upgrading" to LEDs on that tank. There is no reason as there would be very limited electrical savings, and a few bulbs a year...whoopdedo. I've been on the fence for the last 6 months thinking about buying a couple Mitras for my SPS tank, but I haven't seen an LED lit SPS tank yet that has the same the results (mainly growth, also color) as halides.

The cost of replacing bulbs is about the same as the cost of salt over a year...really not that significant. The reefer will likely spend much more money on livestock. So all this LED money savings yipyap really doesn't interest me. I'm interested in real life results. I couldn't care less about the extra $200 a year I spend on my halides when I just spent more than that today on one single coral. The argment makes no sense to me.

I don't think LEDs are the be all end all, neither are halides nor T5s. Different lights for different situations.

[monocus]

if you want to check out various leds i have everything from vertex ilumina to diy s.-7 different types,all at various costs.i can even use my par meter to show you the various pars on each system

[WarDog]

I have found that this is a very hot topic in reefing circles since the introduction of LED's a few years ago. I have always run fluorescents over my freshwater tanks and never had the need to change. Always got good results with colours and plant growth...

but the saltwater game is different.

My lighting budget for this build is about $1000. That does not mean I want to spend that much, but will, to ensure a healthy tank. Probably the single most expensive piece of hardware... next to the MP40 I got for Xmas.

I've somewhat decided on a fixture for each option:

1) Aqua Medic OceanLight T5 HO 8x39W - Retails for about $520 without bulbs.

2) Hamilton Tech 3' Cebu Sun- 1 Metal Halide & 4-39W HO Actinic T5 System (175W 14K, Electronic Ballast) - Retails for $580... with bulbs... so this is cheaper than the T5 fixture.

3) Haven't quite decided on a LED fixture but I do really like a bit about all of them. However, 2 of the higher end fixtures is a little bit over my budget, like 2 Radion Pro's. 36" tank remember.

4) Reef LED Lights DIY 24" with a selection of the LED's I want. Probably could build this for under $800. Although electronics have never been my strong point.

Thanks to everyone for your input, please keep the comments coming. I still have a few months before I need to buy a light.

[Myka]

PFO was the first to offer a "high-end" fixture touting LEDs as the primary light source in 2004 I believe it was. The only thing high-end about those fixtures was the price, and that ended up being a big fail which ultimately led to bankruptcy for PFO. As far as I know, PFO still carries the broad patent and collects royalties from all the manufacturers we are buying from now. Not a bad deal in the long run.

Anyway...

Does your 65 have a center brace? If so, a single halide will create a terrible shadow.

My LPS/Zoa reef is 36x18x18" and I have to keep low PAR bulbs in the 4x39 watt fixture or I will bleach several of the LPS. Two bulbs run for 12 hours and the other two only run for 4 hours. LPS really don't need a lot of light, but many do need a lot of time to acclimate to high lighting situations. Many of my LPS used to reside in my 90-gallon tank (24" deep) where they had 2x250 watt halides. I was always cramming the LPS into the low(er) light areas and always fighting bleaching where the halides got them too much. I finally gave up and gave them a low light tank of their own. Keeping LPS/softies in a different tank than SPS is much, much easier than trying to keep them both in the same tank. Lots of people keep LPS under halides successfully, but my point is that it can actually be done easier with less light (less electricity). Another thing to think about is that SPS grow quite fast (so do many softies), and LPS generally grow slowly in comparison. There are definitely significant exceptions on both sides. My point is, fast growing SPS will be growing out of your 65-gallon tank in no time, and if SPS is really where you end up then chances are you will be looking at an upgrade when the bug really starts to get you.

For all these reasons, and all the ones I've already listed I think you should keep this tank with the KISS method (keep it simple silly) and see where your reef dreams take you. What you plan now tends to change over time. 5 years ago I said I never wanted a "high maintenance SPS tank" ever again, and look where I am now! If you stick with LPS and softies then a 6x39 watt T5 fixture could keep you quite happy for years and years and years (and you could place SPS at the top too if you wanted). If you really get into SPS you could keep the 65 the way it is and buy a second tank for an SPS tank where you could go hardware silly. I think in the next 2 years of reef keeping you're going to learn a lot, and you will get preferences that you will want to put into your next tank. Newbies tend to either get out of the hobby completely or upgrade within the first year or two.

I would also suggest that if you go T5 or halides you look in the classifieds as there are lots of good deals floating around and all you miss is a warranty. On all my lighting systems, the only pieces I bought new are the electronic ballasts for my halides because I couldn't find any used ones and I got a good Boxing Day deal. I wouldn't buy LEDs used though - they still have too many hiccups and are too expensive to not have a warranty.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Myka

Anyway...

Chatty today, aren't we??

I agree, if I were setting up a new tank that size, for those corals, I'd go T5. You can get great color, great growth and they're easy. Cost of bulbs? pfft, whatever, as you said, it's the cost of a coral. You can find a nice used unit for a couple hundred bucks. Spend the rest of the budget on filling the tank. A 65g with a Mitras and no corals is gonna look like crap
MH "may" introduce heat issues you don't need to deal with and for softies and LPS, a bit overkill.

[Myka]

I'm always chatty Brad.

[Reef Pilot]

Well, if you have been doing FW for 30 years, I would not call you a total noob. You obviously must have an appreciation for good equipment, and control over your tank operation and maintenance. Also, I assume with these years, you have some money to spend (or you wouldn't even consider SW).

I got started (inherited a SW tank with a new house) with SW about 3 years ago, after only FW experience many years ago. The tank had T5's in a built-in (but vented) canopy. The tank was actually a mess (although not knowing any better then, still looked good to me), and it took me a long time to clean up the algae and other unwanted nutrients in the tank.

I didn't like the T5's right from the beginning. There was a lot of heat, and the bulbs needed replacing. I also had no control (other than a timer) over the lighting and intensity, or colour. Had to buy different bulbs (actinics, etc), just to get a better look, But I was never satisfied, and had to keep spending money with them.

I put up with the T5's for a year, and then bought 3 Radions (Gen 1) to replace the T5's. They were definitely very expensive at the time, but I sure liked them, with the total control, and how good they made my tank look.

Then I set up a 2nd tank downstairs (yes, SW can be addictive), and initially moved my old T5's into that canopy. Again, same problems with heat and other issues. Shortly thereafter, the Radion Gen 2's came out and I sprang for 3 more (and another Gen 1 for a frag tank). And the price was now a lot more reasonable, too. I moved the original Gen 1's to my new downstairs tank, and installed the new Gen 2's into my original main display tank.

I couldn't be happier with that decision and choice. Because the Radions are wireless (to each other) I can now control and adjust all the lighting in my house (individually or group them any way you want) from a single laptop USB connection,... very, very, convenient.

And they all have more intensity than I can use so far. I am now growing SPS under the Gen 2's, and still have not raised the intensity above 90%. They have coloured up beautifully, and growing very well (thick and fast). The downstairs tank with the Gen 1's is still only at 50% and softies and LPS doing great with them.

I know there are still newer and cheaper LEDs coming on the market. I can't speak for them, but seems like lots of choices, that's for sure. As for the more expensive Radion Pros, or GHL Mitras, they sound like overkill to me. But if you got the money,... what the heck.

Good luck with your decision, and hope you enjoy the challenge and rewards with the SW and reef keeping.

[WarDog]

Originally Posted by Myka

Anyway...

Does your 65 have a center brace? If so, a single halide will create a terrible shadow.

Yes it does and I thought this may be an issue for a single halide.
Lots to think about Myka, thank you for all that great input. I think you are correct in that I probably would want a 2nd tank down the road specifically for SPS. Just want to make the correct purchase now rather than finding out the hard way I bought the wrong fixture for my needs. Do you think 6x39w T5's are enough?