Possible zoa poisoning

[mrhasan]

I would also like to point out something that Denny said few months ago in a similar thread...."paly" toxin. The name says it all. I am no expert but as far as I know, paly and zoas are different. Levi should correct me if I am wrong.

[Dearth]

It's one of the reasons I won't put Zoa's into my tank I love the colours of them but once bitten twice shy I never want to experience that pain ever again I read everything about the corals I have now and any future ones I plan to get especially any nasty surprises they may have but no more Zoa's for me.

[fishytime]

Originally Posted by Zoaelite

Wrong, only certain species from the order contain the toxin.

I'm not down playing how toxic the toxin is simply my opinion that 90% of the accusations put onto the internet don't have a credible base of evidence.



Found here.

Every single one of the corals you added was a zoa, very unlikely they contain the toxin.

so he was imagining his symptoms and the doctor was wrong?


why do some people find it necessary to try and identify which ones are toxic and which ones are not?.....is it not a good thing just for all reefers in general to handle ALL zoanthus species with caution, so there is no second guessing?....especially when nine times out of ten no one on the internet can even agree on what morph is what.... you know I respect your opinion Levi, but to say this one is toxic and that one isnt toxic when you yourself are just speculating is irresponsible when your opinion on zoas is respected

[daniella3d]

NO they don't, most small zoanthids don't contain palytoxin. It's only some type of palythoas that contain it and I very much doubt those contain any palytoxin. I have tons of these in my tanks for years and I have been handling them very often without any gloves. I had spray in my face, eyes and can't remember where else and never felt a thing.

I never used gloves an handle any of the zoanthids and palythoas in my tank and I am pretty sure none of them contain palytoxin.

Those that were ever found to contain palytoxin are the ugly brown paly that most of us want to get rid of and come as hitchicker.

Originally Posted by clown lover

I don't think it matters what one it is, they all give off a toxin when there being handled. I learned the hard way as well when handling them. Also if you are fragging out of the tank wear glasses. I use powder free throw away gloves as well.

[The Guy]

Originally Posted by fishytime

so he was imagining his symptoms and the doctor was wrong?


why do some people find it necessary to try and identify which ones are toxic and which ones are not?.....is it not a good thing just for all reefers in general to handle ALL zoanthus species with caution, so there is no second guessing?....especially when nine times out of ten no one on the internet can even agree on what morph is what.... you know I respect your opinion Levi, but to say this one is toxic and that one isnt toxic when you yourself are just speculating is irresponsible when your opinion on zoas is respected

Exactly, in my statement I said " I don't THINK it matters" so I consider that they are all capable of toxin stinging, so that's why I suggest wearing the gloves and glasses, why chance it. Also some people could be more skin sensitive than others.

[daniella3d]

They don't sting and they don't bite either. They produce mucus when upset and they can spray water quite far when taken out of the water. They don't have any eyes, but they seem to be expert at spraying that water in the eyes of the person who is handling them. I have been sprayed a few times, rinsed the eyes right away and did not have any effect.

On the other end, I am getting an allergic skin reaction when I touch certains coral like frogspawn and hammer. Looks like the same type of pimples that one gets when touching poison oak and it itch like crazy.

A lot of things can cause an allergic reaction in our aquariums.

Originally Posted by clown lover

Exactly, in my statement I said " I don't THINK it matters" so I consider that they are all capable of toxin stinging, so that's why I suggest wearing the gloves and glasses. Also some people could be more skin sensitive than others as well.

[The Guy]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

They don't sting and they don't bite either. They produce mucus when upset and they can spray water quite far when taken out of the water. They don't have any eyes, but they seem to be expert at spraying that water in the eyes of the person who is handling them. I have been sprayed a few times, rinsed the eyes right away and did not have any effect.

On the other end, I am getting an allergic skin reaction when I touch certains coral like frogspawn and hammer. Looks like the same type of pimples that one gets when touching poison oak and it itch like crazy.

A lot of things can cause an allergic reaction in our aquariums.

So I guess stinging was not the right word to use, my "point" is why not be safe and wear the gloves and or the glasses when handling corals to avoid the skin discomfort. It's your skin you decide.

[jason604]

Zoas containing palytoxin is more than real. Believe it or not but its not a certain type of zoas that contain palytoxin but it depends on each head/polyp. Most head of a colony or whatever size do not contain the toxin but it may be just 1 or 2 head within that group that may contain palytoxin. And the comment that "paly"toxin only Is in palys is totally wrong. There are a few Marine species that contain it and not only are they corals. They are also contained in some types of anemone and even a crab that's called(demania reynaudii). There's been documents of a person eating this crab and died of palytoxin poisoning. So this is type of toxin in zoas is more than just real and no chances should be made that(oooh my zoas are not poisonous and I don't need to be careful)

[toytech]

I think the real moral of the story is don't drink the water ! Corals produce all kinds of things when ticked off and the last thing you want to do is ingest them . They have other toxins that you can have a reaction too and its not just zoas and palys .

[reefwars]

something seems odd here.....



i find it odd that a doctor will agree with you with no further tests?

i also find it odd that he said you were poisoned but showed you no proof id love to see what the doctor wrote for you if he wrote or did anything at all besides:

"I went to my doctor and he said I might have gotten slightly poisoned by ingesting the poison. He then told me If I were to ingest a higher amount I would only have had 90mins to get treated at the hospital ori would have died!!! Next time I'm not taking any chances with these things and will go to the hospital ASAP! Be careful with your zoas guys!!, don't take any risk and remember the most beautiful things in life can be the most deadly!"

if someone goes to a dotor showing symptoms of poisoning more than likely unless its a basement doctor they are going to push for further tests or to go to a facility who can accomodate the tests needed to verify the poison(toxin)

how does the doctor know it isnt contagious, lethal or something that could be viral? does the doctor have any info at all on the subject any references or experience with the toxin? highly doubt it which is all the more reason to suggest seeing someone more suited to this type of work.

werent you concerned? didnt you push for solid answers, maybe go to a lab and get tested?



the toxin in doses large enough to kill or hurt us is in P. heliodiscus or P. toxica which is still in circulation but p. toxica is no longer allowed to be collected, not sure if p.heliodiscus is or not but i imagine it is.

we are still unsure if any more species have it but the family is too large to tell for sure.

yes i agree always wear gloves fact is anything marine is foreign to our bodies not just toxin but theres other risks as well since we do not know alot about some of these wide spread species.

saying that my " zoas " have palytoxin will need to do much better....

and for the comment above about what does it matter well it matters.

why?


how can we limit collections, handling and restrictions on species if we cant weed out the serious, fake or mild experiences? how can we prepare general hospitals and doctors of such toxins if they can not be narrowed down? how can we do research on the toxic species if we do not know what they are?

yes it is hard to tell a zoanthus gigantus from a zoanthus sociatus or palythoas sp. or protopaly but its not impossible and there are distinct differences in the species like any other.


over all when dealing with marine animals all precautions shjould be taken after all we know very little about much of these animals.


glad your ok but i do not think palytoxin was the cause in this case , more probable is an allergic reaction or some other reaction.


http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...e-0018235-t003



cheers