Help please algae issues

[Madreefer]

Originally Posted by kien

If the top layer is "boiling" then are they not tumbling?

There needs to be a guide on this "boiling or tumbling effect". It's way too confusing.

[kien]

Originally Posted by Myka

I think most people consider "tumbling" to be fully fluidized, no?

I'm not sure. I've always thought that if media is moving, then it's "tumbling" :-)

In BRS' video about Carbon & Phosphate and Reactors they show GFO "tumbling" in the reactor (at 2:50). They even say it is "tumbling" at 2:50 and 5:09 and 5:20. At 5:23 they also mention that, "all of the particles turn over a few times a day"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yba8hkQ6WC8

In their other video on just GFO they say it tumbles in the reactor at 2:46, 3:10 and 4:04.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM8tw2aStDE

But you are right in that it should not tumble the media too vigorously.

[Myka]

That first BRS video at 2:50 he says don't tumble it "too vigorously" when you have GFO and carbon in the same reactor or the GFO will grind the carbon to dust. I didn't watch the whole video, I don't agree that the media should tumble to its entire depth. I posted a video on page 1 that shows the flow rate that I prefer. I do recommend though, that once a week the ball valve should be opened so the media can be flushed at which time it should tumble vigorously for maybe 30 seconds or so. This dislodges trapped detritus and prevents clumping and tunneling.

Here's the video again of the flow rate I recommend.
http://youtu.be/iE01NgvGHIY

This is getting somewhat off-topic rant-like.

[Reef Pilot]

Hate to say it, but I don't think you have just one issue to solve with your tank. I went through some of the same when I inherited a salt water tank a few years ago. It had high nitrates, high phosphate, full of aiptasia, and I was a SW newbie. Needless to say, it took me a while to figure things out, and I had to change a lot of things before it got better. Good news, I was successful, and now have a very healthy tank with zero nitrates, and near zero phostates, and growing SPS. Oh, and no aiptasia.

It does come down to basics though. Is your equipment good? What are your husbandry practices? Do you have the right fish and CUC that help keep your tank clean? And chemistry? Test kits? Go slow. Fix the right problems first. Monitor your progress and confirm what you are doing is working.

Lots of good reading on the web, including some great articles by Myka. Do some searches and should be easy to dig up all kinds of stuff on almost anything. Here is one example with an index of topics.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/subject/index.php
Of course, don't believe everything you read, and the forums are full of opinions. But with knowledge and experience, you should be able to figure out what and who you can trust. Plus there are many methods that work, and there are always new ways of doing things. That's part of what makes this hobby fun.

So where do you start? I would first look at your equipment. I believe you have a 180g tank. How much flow? I have a 100g and have 6500+ gph inside the tank. Strong flow helps keep the rocks and sand clean from detritus, where algae likes to grow. You said you have a new skimmer. What is it rated for? While my tank is 100g, I have a skimmer rated for 280g. Do you use filter socks? For that size tank, I would use a 7" inch diameter (16" long). If you have room in your sump, I would use two of those. That helps collect particulate matter in your water before it has a chance to turn into nitrates and phosphates, and helps make your skimmer be more efficient with less cleaning. RODI is a given. Various media reactors are also useful and I will talk about these later. Oh, and I would ditch that canister filter. It can be a nitrate factory.

Good husbandry is also most important. I would go with 20% water changes every 2 weeks until your tank is where you want it. Then no longer than once a month, if all your parameters stay good. Despite what some people here say, I would recommend vacuuming your sand with each water change at the beginning. I did that, and was amazed how much crap came out of my sand. Later you can do it once every few months to prevent build-up. You can also do different sections of the tank each time. A shallow sand bed also makes things easier. And keep picking away at that algae. I used a toothbrush on the rocks, and blew off the detritus with a turkey baster. Thankfully that effort became much easier and less frequent as my tank got cleaned up.

The right fish can help too. I have a yellow tang, kole tang, lawnmower blenny and a foxface that are always picking algae from the rocks and glass. I also have a diamond goby that does a wonderful job of keeping my sand clean. Some snails do work, but since I got some hermits, they were all done in. However, I have these little stomatella snails that have multiplied in my tank, and do a great job of keeping my upper rock surfaces (where the light is really strong) polished clean of algae. And the hermits don't bother them. Stay away from conch and other sand sifting snails. I tried them, and they didn't work for me. What's worse, is they get stuck under rock work and die there, making things worse. And whooh, what a smell when you remove them...

Media reactors are another great help. I would start with a bio pellet reactor to get your nitrates down. Here again the right equipment is very important. You want one with a lot of capacity and flow to keep your pellets tumbling properly. I use a Vertex UF20 and it can handle a full 1000 ml bag. However, it is important to follow directions and start slowly. The use of MB7 is also very important. I would start dosing heavily with MB7 (and you don't have to shut off your skimmer) a couple weeks early. It adds beneficial bacteria that helps prevent cyano, mulm, clumping and other bad things that can happen with bio pellets or carbon dosing (eg vodka). Once your nitrates come down (could take several months), then I would add GFO. That will take your phosphates down to near zero. I use an old converted RODI 3 cannister system (similar to the BRS GFO reactors) and run both carbon and GFO. That has worked well for me.

Oh, I should mention, I did initially try a refugium full of chaeto. It didn't make a dent in the nitrates or phosphates. I guess my tank at that time was just too far gone for it to make a difference.

Anyway, it can be done. Go slow. Don't expect immediate results. And don't give up. And nothing more gratifying afterwards to know that you won the battle. Good luck.

[Myka]

Excellent post by Reef Pilot.

[Madreefer]

Originally Posted by Myka

I do recommend though, that once a week the ball valve should be opened so the media can be flushed at which time it should tumble vigorously for maybe 30 seconds or so. This dislodges trapped detritus and prevents clumping and tunneling.:

That's a good tip. Thanks. Ok back on topic. Sorry for the minor hijack.

[Coralgurl]

Thank you all for the feedback and tips! I went through Mykas articles last night and will do some more reading today.

To clarify a few points....this is my 55 gl tank. Running on a canister filter, no sump. Tank is 2 years old. I have 3 power heads, one mp10, 2 koralias (4's) I believe. The mp10 is set on reef crest, placed on the end of the tank in the middle at 100%. The 2 koralias are also on the ends but pointed at the surface.

I ran out of rowaphos and been substituting gfo in the canister. I just picked up fluval phosphate media and will change out today with a water change. I've been changing 25-30 gls of water with each change, max I can do at any one time. Water changes every 2 weeks.

I only use RO water, feed frozen but thaw and rinse before using, every time.

The skimmer I added is rated to 100 gls and with 6 small fish, don't think my bioload is too much.

My parameters are as follows

Phospahates .25 API test
Nitrate 20 API test
Cal 420 elos
Alk 8 elos
Mag 1100 elos
Ph 8.1 elos

It looks like I need to increase my cuc as I don't think I have any alive in the tank.

Where the hair algae is growing is the rocks on the bottom of the tank, I can pull these out and clean as they are small.

Good starting points-I'm not sure if I can run a bio pellet reactor on this one with no sump, I've been looking around and haven't found one. Will read about other options.

Thanks again!

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by Coralgurl

To clarify a few points....this is my 55 gl tank. Running on a canister filter, no sump.

Whoops, sorry, I shouldn't have assumed. My post would apply mostly to your 180g. A canister can work for a 55 g, but would need a different approach, which is a whole another subject. But again, some good reading on the web on how to make that work, too.

[Myka]

With that amount of nutrients in the tank and the way it is set up (canister filter, no sump) it is really going to take a lot of time and elbow grease. The "real" numbers are much higher than the ones the test kits are showing you because the algae is sucking quite a bit out of the water column in order to be growing so well.

I would also consider removing the sand bed and then replacing it with a new shallow sand bed after the nutrients are under control again. This will help speed things along because usually in high nutrient systems there is a lot trapped and absorbed into the substrate (and live rock, but I doubt you want to replace that haha). If you do remove the sand bed, look into this before you start as it can be dangerous if you don't do it right.

Fyi, RowaPhos is GFO. GFO generally refers to any granular phosphate media that is reddish brown.

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by Coralgurl

I'm not sure if I can run a bio pellet reactor on this one with no sump, I've been looking around and haven't found one. Will read about other options.

That tank, with no sump, might be a good candidate for carbon dosing using vodka together with MB7. The canister can still be used to get your phosphates down. I haven't done this myself, so can't speak from direct experience. But lots of good experience on the web if you do a search.

Once your params are good and the algae is licked, then maybe go back to just nitrate and phosphate removing media in your canister.

Along with your water changes, I would still vacuum the sand and make good use of a toothbrush and turkey baster until the detritus and algae are gone. Also would clean the primary sponge filter in your canister often to prevent build-up, esp with all your extra initial cleaning effort in your tank.