So what do you think....

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by howdy20012002

For your other concerns:
I didn't state that I didn't want to take the risk. I am completely self-employed and know all about risk.
I am not starting a "true" storefront, not because of risk, but because I can't commit to such a venture, as I have another business to run.
I have over 40 grand invested in this fish business as it sits right, all of which came from me..not a bank because they don't like self-employed individuals.
Those who aren't self-employed may not realize as to how difficult it is get money from anyone when you don't have a set paycheck.
Self-employed individuals have an almost impossible time receiving any financing thru banks and grants are near impossible to receive for a venture such as this.

As for unfair competition:
I gutted my basement of its one bedroom apartment to start this business at loss of 1000.00 per month in rent.
When you consider I have only about 600 square(if that) of usable space, I am actually paying more per foot for my store than my shop where I store my limos.
My other operating expenses are on line with other vendors as I still have to pay electricty, etc.
Even without taking into account of the rent, my current revenue is certainly not covering the cost of the livestock and operating expenses or even close.
Hopefully, in the future as my customer base will grow, and I will actually be able to make some return on my investment.

As for the fine line, I can ensure you that I was totally upfront of my intentions of my business when I applied for my business permit and it fits well within the legal boundaries as set forth by the City of Edmonton.

I realize that we probably aren't going to see on the same page on this debate of home-based businesses.
But I hope I did address your concerns as much as i could beyond me closing the doors for good.

thanks again for the input.
Neal

Last time I checked we lived in a free country were capitalism and entrepreneurship is encouraged. You don't need to explain or justify your private business to anybody. Store front businesses also have a lot of benefits over home based businesses such as enormously more visibility to the general public, larger volume discounts on stock (also directly related to visibility), greater tax reductions/credits, etc. If you want to set up a store with 10 tanks the equipment cost outlay would be the same regardless of location. There are certain LFS that sell their live stock for twice as much as other LFS, does that mean that the other stores are all under cutting? Should every store have the exact same price on everything so we can eliminate competition and well run stores can't be rewarded with better profits than a poorly run store?

I haven't been to your store yet Neal but I have bought things off you in the past and you were a pleasure to deal with. I'm just in the process of shutting down one tank and establishing another and when everything is good I look forward to shopping at your home based business.

[sphelps]

Before this thread takes a turn for the worst please note opinions were requested and I gave mine which I believe could be considered general concerns. The goal here from my understanding is constructive criticism and not slandering those who bring up concerns. Running retail stores on residential property has been against bylaw every where I've lived so I made some assumptions, I don't know what the exact laws in Edmonton are but such businesses would be quickly shut down around here with the simple complaint from a neighbor regarding reduced parking. I've known a couple people in the past having such issues with home based businesses and they weren't even close to retail. I guess the rules are different where you are and that has been clarified, this is beneficial information others may appreciate, I know I do.

For the record I am self employed, I know what's involved especially in the aquarium trade as I have past experience in that. My point was if this was a serious business venture you should consider dropping one of your other time consumers. A side line business like this will not likely take off, costing you more in the long run which appears to already be the case. IMO selling the limo business might be a good start and perhaps allowing you to do something you're more passionate about.

As for the quarantine, doesn't make sense to me but that's personal opinion based on 2 weeks not being long enough to treat most parasites. I don't think quarantine is really the right word for advertisement. It holds more purpose in observation which most stores do just not offsite.

Anyways I appreciate you addressing my concerns, my intent was to be constructive.

[howdy20012002]

thanks intarsiabox for the support.
I agree sphelps I did ask for opinions, so thank you for yours.
I am afraid we will need to agree to disagree.
I personally would rather buy a fish that has been quarantined for 2 weeks and I know that is eating than buy a fish that just landed the day before like some of the stores do in the city (not all stores do this and I know that thanks).
but to each their own and each side will have their own arguments..
some will come to my store, others to the other stores.
I must say though for you to suggest I should give up my steady source of income from my limo company to do this fish store fulltime is a bit beyond a suggestion that will make my store better...and I find it a bit presumptuous on your part to make such a statement.
I am going to continue to do what I am doing, sell stuff on the weekends and during personal appointments... and make a go of it.
if it doesn't work, so be it.
but yeah, I am not going to give up a reliable source of income to become a "real" store, because I feel I already am a real store.
thanks again for the input.
looking forward to hearing from others and their concerns.
thanks
Neal

[intarsiabox]

I don't know if I could ever get rid of that limo, that thing is amazing! But I totally agree, Neal should open a store in Sherwood Park.

[sphelps]

Hmm I don't mean to be presumptuous but in all reality I would say the majority of successful business owner quit some sort of steady income to pursue something they were more passionate about. The best stores out there are a result from the owner putting everything they had into it. Not saying you haven't invested a lot but the reality is it's not your priority and these things tend to show in more ways than one. Limited store hours to begin with then unexpected closures already such a short time after being open. Personally unless I was your "buddy" I wouldn't put up with it and shop elsewhere for convenience. I mean in all reality what are you really offering that other stores don't? It's a competitive market place for sure, definitely no shortage of salt stores in Edmonton.

As far as the quarantine goes I don't think it's a matter of agreeing to disagree, pretty simple is it's not a quarantine procedure as it really does nothing for disease. While you might see benefit from fish already eating it really makes no difference unless the fish is known as a finicky eater and if that's the case time and effort is required to train them on frozen which you've made perfectly clear you don't have. Fish keeping 101 states don't buy a fish unless it's eating, you can do this at any store and you don't have to buy it if it's not eating. We have a store here that pulls the QT card all the time, it's quite obvious it's complete BS and it's annoying to hear and puts me and many others off the store while there are many others that fall for it only to later realize they've introduced disease into their tank. The point I'm making is the fact you advertise all your fish are quarantined suggests they are disease free which I think we have established not to be the case. It's something people talk about for sure and effects reputation.

[howdy20012002]

I think this thread as pretty much came to the end of its usefulness.
I never have stated my fish are disease free and ensure that my customers know that. if you have come to the store, you would be aware of this.
I do not agree with you on your argument on quarantine, i fully realize that is is not guaranteeing anything but it is still does offer some protection...but to each their own.

anyways, I am not getting into more debate about passion, lack of commitment etc... or the right and wrong of what I am doing.
Point blank, I am doing it and will not be stopping anytime soon.
I appreciate your concerns, and I will keep them in mind.
thanks
Neal

[Nano]

Well I for one can't wait to come check it out its always nice to have a variety of places to go to!

[howdy20012002]

yep it is nice to have a selection to choose from.
every store has their own "stuff" for everyone to gleam over.
which is all part of the fun of the hunt for that coral that needs to fill that hole in the corner of your tank.
looking forward to seeing you here...and the good thing is that Red Coral is only a 2 minute drive and is definitely worth that stop..Steve has lots of stuff to fill the gaps in our tanks as well(i have dozens of zoas from Steve over the last couple of years to help feed my Zoa addiction)
thanks
Neal

[Carandiru]

Ah awesome thread. I'm definitely gonna stop by this weekend if there isn't too much snow on the roads lol.

Really an opinion should perhaps only be justified after visiting the store.

[Reef Pilot]

With retail, it is about price, selection, quality and service. You can't be the best at all of them (and make a profit). But you need to choose what will bring your customers back. And be sure that none of them will be reasons for customers to never come back.

I was in retail my whole career, and it is a very tough business indeed. There are much easier ways to make money. But if you can get a loyal following, and figure out the right mix of products and volume that work, it can be very gratifying.

I wish we had a SW store in Langley with your passion and attitude. Your willingness and courage to solicit feedback is to be applauded. I hope it helps you to improve your business. Best of luck.