Dolphin Ampmasters

[DJ88]

Umm actually no. The thing is by using this pump you are getting a much more efficient motor than what is probably in a jacuzzi pump. So in the end you are getting one of the best pumps out there. It is just that the actual power consumption is not as low as first thought. It is still low. but..

With that said.

Ok so a MAK4 does the following.

startup 137W

running after a couple of min 123W 32VAR

current draw was 1.1Amps

This shows you that what a manufacturer claims isn't the same. When a manuf says 95W as with the MAK4 that is AT the motor. Not from the wall.

[Bryan]

Hmm, that really doesn't make sense, the resisitve properties of the line must be quite high to cause a increase in wattage of that magnitude. I kinda doubt the explanation Dolphin gave you. Maybe a electrical engineer can jump in and give us a guiding light.

Originally posted by DJ88:
The difference in wattage is due to line losses from the motor to the wall. So in effect we are BOTH right. The motor uses 150W but from the wall 222Watts is used. The wattage difference between the two is lost due to resistances in the wiring from the wall to the pump motor.

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[StirCrazy]

thats what I was thinking Bryan, 77 watts seams like a awfull lot of power to be disapated as heat in a power cord.

That means your power cord is consuming 0.64amps Darren.. does that make sence to you? I would think it would be a little hard to hold on to the cord for more than a fraction of a second due to the heat that is being throwen off by the cord if this is the case.

if the dolphin pumps is as I remember it should be a centrifical pump..am I right? and are you using it to push water back up to the main tank? if so I would think that the ratins dolphin used are for 0 head. so if you had the pump at the top of your tank and drew strait out and put it strait back it you would probably get there numbers.. the more head ou put on it the harder the moror has to work.. and the more power it draws. the electric motors used in that type of a pump are a constan speed type motor so as increased head pressur caused the impeller to slow down the motor will draw more curent to bring the speed back up to its rated rpm. I will go through my notes and get you the proper terms on this type of speed controle if you want but basicly thats how it works.

Steve

[ 24 May 2002, 20:00: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[DJ88]

Give me a half hour and I'll post the Wattage, VA and VAR results. :D

[SuperFudge]

Ahhh.....Thats better.

Maybe ill stick with the pool pump,as it keeps volume after being re-routed ect.

Thanks Darren.

[DJ88]

Marc, You'll be using probably twice the power with the jacuzzi tho. Why go that route? 1/2 the power for more water volume..

Steve,

I know the numbers don't add up. I think they are not telling us about all the losses in the motor itself. Still tho this pumps pushes more water than anything else around. I'lls till use it but know I knwo what the 'real' numbers are and won't fool myself into thinking it is less than it is.

When I was told to measure what the motor is using they wanted me to measure across only a couple of poles in it. Right there it shows we aren't taking into account the whole load the motor is placing on your house circuitry.

I didn't liek the explanation but I have a feeling(after testing the MAK4) that it will be the same for everything I run these tests on. Which bites.

I can understand a manufacturer supplying the bench ratigs. BUt once it is assembled there shoudl also be ratings for the useable power ratings.

I was given a good analogy yesterday. When you buy a vheicle and are told it has x number of horsepower that is a bench rating. Once you slap it into a vheicle you lose a lot due to transmission, frictional losses etc etc etc. It is the same with these and any other pumps. There are losses. frictional, resistive etc. It just bites we are lead into believeing that the numbers we are given are the ones we actually see in real life.

As for the losses the ampmaster has I'd assume that it is more than line losses. Friction will play a big part in it. Whether it is due to friction in the windings, resistence of the water fom wanting to move or what ever. THey are there.

Dollar for dollar tho to get the equal in water volume moved you'd need to run three MAK4's which cost $269 a piece. You'd be using more power and two of these things is more expensive than one Ampmaster.

In the long run I will still use the ampaster. tho I am not happy with the little 'deception'.

sigh waht can you do. Manufacturers have us kinda over a barrel. Either we use the pumps they give us or we dont' use anything at all. We can use jacuzzi pumps but I'd hazard a guess they use a heck of a lot more power than the pumps we are using now.

If the plackard onthe jacuzzi says it draws 4.5 amps I'd bet it draws a lot more. I was told by DOlphin it is the standard in the industry to show bench ratings and not actual ratings. so I doubt the manufacturer of the jacuzzi pumps will be different.

clear as mud???

Marc we will have to test one and see for sure.

[ 25 May 2002, 11:17: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[StirCrazy]

Darren, hehe your telling me.. althought it is a little different for a car.. all the losses in a care are after the motor that is rated.. and it is not hidden that it is flywheel horse power.

I agree that the Dolphin looks like a cool pump also.

JFYI, hot tub pumps are never rated at 0 head so infact there out put in all realaty will probably blow the dolphin away.. here is a example of my pump on my hot tub to show you what I mean. mine is a little more powerfull than a dolphin but it shows you how they are rated.

HP 1.5
Volts 120/240
gpm@30 ft.(head) 127
gpm@40 ft.(head) 105
gpm@50 ft.(head) 50

so that is over 7600gph @ 30 feet of head ( I want to see Titus put that baby on his tank :D :D ), and it cost me 180.00 for motor and pump. it does use a lot of power though.. 8.2 amps on high speed and 2.2 amps on low speed using 220 power (this is MAX DRAW ratings.. now wattage rating whatsoever) and is a little more noise.. not to bad though.. a insulated cabnet would quiet it right up.. the best thing is thease pumps are designed to run 24/7 for 10 years. in the situation of a sump in the basement I think this would be the way to go on a big tank.

the dolphin pumps look very simuler to a hot tub pump motor but what I suspect is that it is a smaller power motor with a smaller pump end..and you are paying for the quietness of the unit. hell it is still better than any other pump in the fish industry from what i have seen though [img]smile.gif[/img] another thing I noticed is they the aquarium industry is infatuated with wattage to the point of what we have seen here.. using almost useless #'s for the sake of compatition.

I almost wonder if I could buy the same thing for 1/2 the price at my local hot tub dealer... hmmm are there any #'s stamped in to the plastic pump end on your dolphin? would most likely be on the outside of the impeller housing.. I get good deals at the local hot tub place maby I could order the pump ends in.. then it is just a matter of getting a good pump to hook it to [img]smile.gif[/img]

Oh I am going to see if they have any pumps there that are 1/2 HP or less so I can see if they would work also [img]smile.gif[/img]

Steve

[ 25 May 2002, 11:43: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[DJ88]

The one thing is to concider with a jacuzzi pump is the power consumption. That was a main selling point for the ampmaster to me. if I am using 222W to get 3000GPH then so be it. TO get those same numbers(or slightly more) i'd need three pumps that comsume similar wattage with one pump only. THe MAK's are thelowest consumers but two of those cost more than the ampamster.

I am gonna test some 4MD's if I can soon.

Those are some big numbers tho.

After testing a few more pumps now I am betting those amperage numbers you have if they are off the plate on the pump or manual are gonna be a bit higher.

[StirCrazy]

naw they were actualy lower, I had a guy come out and redo my controle box (some bad wiring from the guy who owned it befor me was causing it to draw more power and trip the breaker pluss I put a new seal in the pump end.. the previous owners never watched there water quality or did any maintence from what I have seen) now under full load it only hits 6.9 amps, and that makes 400 gal of water boil :D

I totaly agree that the dolphin is a good pump and the 77 watt diference.... big deal it still kicks a$$.

Steve

[titus]

Hello,

Wow, what a great discussion. A few comments:

1) I can not imagine the power cord be dissipating "that much" power. It is impossible for the cord to have enough impedance to cause that much of line loss.

2) I believe Steve was looking for the word "induction motor", which I think is what the Ampmaster and pretty much all of the pump motors we see are using. These motors do draw more power as the load is increased until the peak "pullout torque" or "breakdown torque" has been reached.

3) I do not like it when manufacturers are not telling the whole truth. This is the same in the audio industry. However, for the very few high end companies they do tell the truth.

4) And yes, the Ampmaster is still a good pump.