why are we running DSB and is it for the right reasons

[Troy F]

I too got caught up with the DSB despite being very apprehensive about the whole thing. I love the look, I like having the bio-diversity and more animals are available to you. I wavered back and forth for sometime even after I'd spent $400 on sand. I discussed the issue with Scott, Marc, Jamie, Darren and a few others and really it came down to 50/50 with no real solid evidence either way. There certainly have always been two camps on this issue, the problem has been that one of those camps became waaaay more vocal than the other and completely swayed the vast majority of reefers out there.

It'll be interesting to see the long term effects of DSB. One of things that really opened my eyes was Dr Shimek's latest claim that we have to replace all substrate periodically do to detritus/heavy metal pollution. It certainly lends credibility to the anti-DSB lobby. I've no interest in reading 37pages of Shimek disciples battling it out with Jerel and Galleon on ReefCentral (guessing at the combatants; I haven't opened the thread), I'll wait for evidence from those around me and my own observations. So far, I'd say they're more trouble than they're worth.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Troy F

So far, I'd say they're more trouble than they're worth.

Troy, I think this to be true given the way we currently use them. I think shallow sand in the tank and a remote DSB is the way to go. With the remote bed, management becomes much easier. I think the potential plankton resulting from these beds is great, and if we could replace small amounts over time, toxic buildup could maybe be avoided.

[Troy F]

I agree 100% and wish I'd thought about it more carefully. Like you, not only did I add one (against my better judgement), I set the rock on top so that removing it would require a massive amount of work .

[Wilty]

Hey ummm thanks guys, I'm setting up a new tank and I think I'm convinced. I'm going to have shallow sand in the main and DSB in the sump/ref. Sorry that is now a bugger for you to make any changes . .. But I appreciate your experience :-)

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Troy F

One of things that really opened my eyes was Dr Shimek's latest claim that we have to replace all substrate periodically do to detritus/heavy metal pollution. It certainly lends credibility to the anti-DSB lobby.

This is the problem Troy, the anti-DSB side is saying Dr. Shimek's high metal theory is bunk and not valid. Randy's (RHF) tests have shown the opposite of the good Dr.'s but what the major consciences seams to be that it is caused by high Organics. even Dr. Ron is starting to say that we cannot come close to replicating the ocean's bio diversity in out tanks as his original counts were 10X to low so instead of 100 organisms in a given area in reality it is over 1000 organisms in that area. Also he is now saying that instead of the 500 to 1000 types of "critters" that are commonly found in the reef mud of the ocean in home aquaria there are only 32 different types commonly accounted for.

Also there have been tests on the benefits of plankton produced by a DSB and if my memory serves it right it was Toone, that demonstrated that any plankton developed was either the wrong type or of an insignificant amount to feed our tanks. Also I have found that DSB's were originally used to create a stable high nutrient environment in labs and such to make the keeping of LPS and softies easier.

So now this brings us to another intersection in the road ahead, it looks like for a LPS/Softie tank a DSB is good, but for a SPS tank it isn't. This is not my conclusion but rather the general condenses that seams to be running around between all the people who are big in the hobby, I am merely trying to make head and tails of it.

So the conclusion I have come to is that we should look at a DSB in two ways the first being aesthetically and the second being a bacteria driven denitrification bed with a finite life.

Steve

[kari]

I like the idea of two remote sand beds, yet the deep part still bugs me. I have no proven theories to add yet some short term results. I have been using about 2cm sugar fine to bare bottom (star polyp covered glass) on half. The small fuge has about double the depth of sugar fine.

Denitratifation is working fine since water changes have been basically not done unless bagging outgoing stuff. Nitrate levels read 0 on my only test kit. Tank is fed 2xday.

The look of the sand bottom appeals to me but somehow I got a nice green front lawn No real algae problems yet.


---How about a remote dsb tank(s) with the bottom partitioned into say 4+ sections which could be siphoned out/cleaned and replaced at intervals. Smaller disruptions more frequent I guess. The older sections would reseed the serviced part quickly. Maybe I'll just make another drink and shut up. Is coke good for fish since I just poured it on the mysis instead of the rum?

[Buccaneer]

Kari ... I like the idea of the remote sandbeds ... I have about a 6" bed in the sump and about a 3 " in the refugium and anywhere from 3 " to 4 " in the display tank ... I saw your " lawn " in your tank and thought it looked pretty cool ... in hindsight I would probably have done a very shallow bed in the display or even none at all ... the GSP looks very cool and would allow me to do a all SPS tank with heavy circulation and not worry about sand blowing everywhere ... hmmmm

Cheers

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by kari

Is coke good for fish since I just poured it on the mysis instead of the rum?

Actually, I'm told Julian Sprung has used coke to feed his goniopora. Rumor is that his new product may contain coke

[EmilyB]

I went with 1.5 and closer to 2 lbs per gallon of live rock when I first got into the hobby. I just saw some older pics of my tanks....and I never had nitrate or algae problems then.

I also jumped on the sand bandwagon.

Now I have a sandbed four years old that is just a shitload of crap. I purchased live sand every year for it, etc. I am in the process of replacing rock, and removing sand. I've never had the problem with an inch or so of sand in some smaller tanks. But none of those small sandbeds have been up four years either.

[Quinn]

...or is it a crapload of shit, Em?

I'd love to pull an inch or two of sand out my tank but it would probably spike my tank.