Hidden Closed Loop Intake

[Dez]

Now that we have it sorted out that I can't have the intake in my overflow (due to using Herbie Style Drain and don't want water draining out and wanting returns on the bottom). Any suggestions on the original purpose of this thread? How does my original hand drawn diagram look? The idea is to have that as a completely separate box.

(I spent way more time than I should have on that mock up diagram of "what if power failure occurs when inlet is in overflow box)

[Delphinus]

You've lost me. What was the original question? I thought you were asking if you could have your CL intake in the overflow box. Or are you asking about the additional hole in the overflow box?

[Delphinus]

Oh ... wait. The question is about whether it's a good idea to use an overflow box that doesn't lead to the sump at all?

Interesting. That seems like it could work. No idea what pitfalls to expect but it seems like a workable idea..

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

Ohhhhh oh ho !!! Tricky, very tricky!! It took me a while to see it, but yes now I see it. The outlet has to be higher than the standpipe if you don't want that to happen.

Then what happens is the tank settles to the level of the closed loop feed, then the water in the overflow drains to the standpipe height.

When power comes on there is no water in the overflow for the closed loop pump and it runs dry....play it safe .... do it right.

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

I imagine you have done pretend power outage to see what would happen.

Acctually, we have a outage atleast once a month. AND, I shut my pump off completely every water change.

My closed loop intake is at the bottom of the overflow. And the drain into the sump is a Durso style. There is No reason why you cant have a Closed loop intake in an overflow

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by Dez

Yes, however it's not so closed anymore once there is a drain in the overflow. Take a look at this diagram that I quickly mocked up (white box is the pump) If you have a power outage, the whole tank is going to drain to the level of the standpipe (standpipe drains to sump - I didn't continue it in the diagram). The water is going to go through the return at the bottom of the tank, into the overflow, and drain down the standpipe in the overflow box. Meaning in the case of this diagram, almost half of the tank would be drained to the sump. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think that I've thought it through alright in my head. Mr. Alberta said that this exact thing happened to him so he doesn't run the inlet of the closed loop in the overflow box anymore.

If the white Box is a closed PUMP, not a SUMP, then No water will drain. Only will it drain if there is a leak in the plumbing. Then no matter what design you have. In a power outage with this design, the level in the Overflow will ballance the level in the tank. Nothing will over flow. It can't.


Now, when you ADD a sump. You need to make sure the sump can handle the extra water in a power outage, because it WILL drain from tank to SUMP, because the sump is open. It will drain the tank and overflow to the sump drain pipe level, thats all. Mine does this JUST FINE.

You will need to use a Durso style drain for sump in the overflow though. Thats the only caveat

[Dez]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

If the white Box is a closed PUMP, not a SUMP, then No water will drain. Only will it drain if there is a leak in the plumbing. Then no matter what design you have. In a power outage with this design, the level in the Overflow will ballance the level in the tank. Nothing will over flow. It can't.


Now, when you ADD a sump. You need to make sure the sump can handle the extra water in a power outage, because it WILL drain from tank to SUMP, because the sump is open. It will drain the tank and overflow to the sump drain pipe level, thats all. Mine does this JUST FINE.

You will need to use a Durso style drain for sump in the overflow though. Thats the only caveat

I don't think you get the point though, it isn't a closed loop anymore once you have the inlet in your overflow box. Since you have a durso to your sump, I'm guessing that your standpipe is pretty high, so it will drain to the level of your standpipe. The durso makes it not closed anymore. If you had no standpipe, your sump might not handle the flow. Anyway, we're off topic because we've established that I can't have my inlet in the overflow box due to Herbie style drain.

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

Acctually, we have a outage atleast once a month. AND, I shut my pump off completely every water change.

My closed loop intake is at the bottom of the overflow. And the drain into the sump is a Durso style. There is No reason why you cant have a Closed loop intake in an overflow

Which pump?

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by Dez

I don't think you get the point though, it isn't a closed loop anymore once you have the inlet in your overflow box. Since you have a durso to your sump, I'm guessing that your standpipe is pretty high, so it will drain to the level of your standpipe. The durso makes it not closed anymore. If you had no standpipe, your sump might not handle the flow. Anyway, we're off topic because we've established that I can't have my inlet in the overflow box due to Herbie style drain.

Closed loop is just that, CLOSED. from tank, back to tank. And yes, with my Durso, the standpipes are high. no reason why Herbie standpipes couldnt be high too. In fact. Most people I know put the Standpipes No Lower than they want the water to ever drain. An extra safeguard. They do NOT need to be at the bottom of the overflow.

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

Which pump?

Pentair Quiet one 3000 for my closed loop, and a MAG 3.5 for my sump return.

Why would it make a difference what pump I used? they have an intake and outlet, which you attach pipes to