Complex Setups: What gives?

[Snappy]

Originally Posted by Moogled

Hey guys, I've noticed that reef setups with plumbing/sumps and electronic hoodickeys seem to yield better results than tanks with HOB skimmers and other misc. items inside the tank.

What are your guys' reasons for a more complex setup and what differences have you experienced using such methods?

I think much depends on what kind of reef you want to keep. I find with my own setup the more equipment I add the better it seems to get, but I have a very crowded sps dominated reef. Now that said, I think one of my better additions lately was adding a refugium and it's very uncomplicated. However, in my limited experience softies & lps are a lot less demanding so require less equipment. So as mentioned it depends a lot on what kind of reef you want to maintain. Below is a photo of the top half of my tank and there is no way I can keep it healthy without a sump and skimmer.

[marie]

Originally Posted by Snappy

I think much depends on what kind of reef you want to keep. I find with my own setup the more equipment I add the better it seems to get, but I have a very crowded sps dominated reef. Now that said, I think one of my better additions lately was adding a refugium and it's very uncomplicated. However, in my limited experience softies & lps are a lot less demanding so require less equipment. So as mentioned it depends a lot on what kind of reef you want to maintain. Below is a photo of the top half of my tank and there is no way I can keep it healthy without a sump and skimmer.

Ok I'll bite . Sps aren't that demanding of fancy equipment. Here is an old pic of my 75g, sumpless, 2 175w metal halides, 3 maxijets and a Prism Pro Hob protien skimmer. This picture was taken just before I took it down.

[Chaotic Cricket]

I found the more equipment I have added over the years the more knowledgeable I've become about things and simply want to automate the process. I do not think the process should be automated that much for someone starting out, you need to learn somehow. That being said some people get off so to speak on having all that equipment, it strokes their egos a bit. Ever seen the people who take up golf or running or squash or biking and have the "pro gear" before they've even tried the sport? Those type of people are in everything its funny when you realize who they are Lastly don't forget that it does cost quite a bit of money to automate your system, and you must decide if the hobby/pets are worth that kind of money spent on them. Same as if someones cat gets sick some people would rush them to the 24hr emergency animal hospital, some will just buy another cat.

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by Chaotic Cricket

I found the more equipment I have added over the years the more knowledgeable I've become about things and simply want to automate the process. I do not think the process should be automated that much for someone starting out, you need to learn somehow. That being said some people get off so to speak on having all that equipment, it strokes their egos a bit. Ever seen the people who take up golf or running or squash or biking and have the "pro gear" before they've even tried the sport? Those type of people are in everything its funny when you realize who they are Lastly don't forget that it does cost quite a bit of money to automate your system, and you must decide if the hobby/pets are worth that kind of money spent on them. Same as if someones cat gets sick some people would rush them to the 24hr emergency animal hospital, some will just buy another cat.

I always buy the best stuff...

I'll pay for quality.

[Chaotic Cricket]

I simply meant you can dose yourself without a dosing pump, you don't need a calc reactor you don't need a mixing station you don't need a controller. They are all optional, not needed for success only to automate it

[Der_Iron_Chef]

This has been something I've been thinking about for quite some time. It seems like, in general, you're legit as a saltwater aquarist *only* if you have certain lighting, certain skimmer(s), plumbing that would make Bob Villa's head spin, and a Starphire tank all-around. There's a certain amount of bravado and narcissism when it comes to equipment. Let's be honest: if you see words like Geisemann, Vortech, Tunze and/or Bubble King in someone's signature, you're probably more likely to listen to what they have to say (ie. take them more seriously). Fact of the matter is, it just takes lots of money to have these pieces.

Bottom line: you can have a brilliant reef aquarium with lower cost equipment. As Beverly said, it just takes a little (or a lot) more elbow grease. I think there are definite benefits to having sumps and refugiums and what-not, but to say that they're a "must" is inaccurate.

[rickjames]

Originally Posted by Moogled

What is another example of a piece of equipment that makes the overall reefkeeping experience easier?

Light timers, top off resevoir/float valve, and Calcium Reactor. I would go crazy without them.

I think there is a couple of reasons why complex tanks overall seem to do better. The biggest is experience. Usually everyone starts off with a little tank with a HOB skimmer and some maxijets. You don't usually see a newbie with Reactors/timers/wavemakers etc right away. An experienced reefer could run an excellent tank without that stuff. But it would be WAY more work.

Another reason is that while a setup might look complex, the goal is usually automation of the mundane tasks. Turning on/off lights, toping off the tank, replenishing Ca/Alk, making water current. When all of that is taken care of, you really start to enjoy your tank. You get to use your "reefing time" to do things you might not have had time for otherwise. Like tweaking Ca/ALk/Mg levels. Checking each coral colony for polyp expansion, health, and growth, feeding your fish and watching the frenzy, nuking those aptasias. Epoxying that frag you got last month to the rock instead of it rolling around on the bottom of the tank.

My tank is in a public office so I usually get a lot of questions about how hard it is to maintain and why it looks so clean. I always tell them "you get out what you put in". A complex setup will help, but the more time you put in to a tank the better and healthier it will look.

[Chin_Lee]

Complexity is a very relative term in this hobby. When starting out in this hobby, just learning about the balance between pH, Alk, Cal, Mg had my mind spinning. As I became more familiar with the basics, my curiousity into other aspects of the hobby expanded to Calcium reactors, kalk dosing, skimmers etc.
I currently have a lot of "gadgets" in and out of my sump and while they may seem overwhelming, each and every item has a specific function to simplify the complexity of the hobby. Understanding the functionality of each gadget will reduce the perception of complexity.
As complex as some systems may be, there is not one guaranteed recipe of success when putting together a tank which results in continuous modifications and improvements to our existing "already-complexed" systems. Fortunately this is where new ideas and methods are created and the internet has provided the gateway for the new information to be shared and tried by other hobbyists - a positive cycle of information sharing.

[kwirky]

Originally Posted by Chin_Lee

Complexity is a very relative term in this hobby. When starting out in this hobby, just learning about the balance between pH, Alk, Cal, Mg had my mind spinning. As I became more familiar with the basics, my curiousity into other aspects of the hobby expanded to Calcium reactors, kalk dosing, skimmers etc.
I currently have a lot of "gadgets" in and out of my sump and while they may seem overwhelming, each and every item has a specific function to simplify the complexity of the hobby. Understanding the functionality of each gadget will reduce the perception of complexity.

I have a DIY auto-top off that's not very complex, but it does make tank maintenance simpler. I just fill the 6 gallon glass jug with water, and it lasts about 2 days. It tops off twice a day for me, while I only have to fill the jug every second day. I do plan on upgrading it to something quite complex to just top it off straight from the RO/DI. It'll have an autofilling resevoir (to prevent TDS creep) and multiple float switches to add safety.

as for complexity for simplistic's sake, there's some people who argue the difference between calcium reactors and dosing pumps. I'm planning on upgrading to the way of the dosing pump because it's simpler than a calcium reactor and much simpler than measuring dosages on a daily basis.

[Delphinus]

That's exactly it - you do what works for you to keep things simple from your perspective.

In my case, I tried dosing and I tried calcium reactors. For me, nothing beats the "set and forget" part of the calcium reactor. If I go away on a trip, my tank sitter doesn't have to do any kind of dosing, just check to make sure things are running. For me, that's simpler. But if another way seems simpler to you, then that's not wrong either.

Basically Chin nailed it:

I currently have a lot of "gadgets" in and out of my sump and while they may seem overwhelming, each and every item has a specific function to simplify the complexity of the hobby. Understanding the functionality of each gadget will reduce the perception of complexity.
As complex as some systems may be, there is not one guaranteed recipe of success when putting together a tank which results in continuous modifications and improvements to our existing "already-complexed" systems.

I totally agree. (Although it seems to me that was the point I was originally trying to make, so I guess I'm just agreeing with myself now. Haha oh well.) Point is, it only seems overwhelming if you don't understand what it's for. And you should not do anything if you don't understand why you're doing it. So while someone says "you should use halides" (or whatever), if you don't understand why you need halides, then you don't need them. As your experience grows and your interests shift, you may realize that you do one day need them. But until then .. it's whatever makes your tank work, that works.