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| View Poll Results: Swine Flu/H1N1 Vaccination - yes or No? | |||
| Yes, I'll take it. |
   
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86 | 33.99% |
| No, I wont take it. |
  
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94 | 37.15% |
| I need more information before deciding. |
  
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26 | 10.28% |
| I've already had or have H1N1. |
  
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15 | 5.93% |
| I think it's a conspiracy of some sort so please don't take it! |
  
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32 | 12.65% |
| Voters: 253. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#121
11-01-2009, 08:53 PM
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I'm pretty much at the point that I really don't see the value of contributing here any longer. People are going to believe what they want. You either trust in science and actual experimental evidence or you don't. I guess that's the end of the story and as much as I could wish that everybody was rational and had the knowledge and education to understand these things like I do that's just not reality. Read the entire fact sheet and look at the results of the trials with the vaccine. Nobody had any severe reactions to this vaccine in all their trials. The few people who did become sick or die were determined to have been from other condition such as diabetes or heart attacks etc. unrelated to the vaccine. That list of side effects you are focussing on is because of lawyers wanting to cover the company in the rare chance something like that does happen. Have a look at any vaccine or drug and you will see similar lists of potential side effects. But the odds of them occurring are extremely low. Are they impossible? No. If millions of doses are administered will there be 100% of people with no serious reactions? Probably not. But I am pretty much 100% certain that the incidence of severe reactions will be a few per million doses. That may be little comfort to you if you are one of those few in a million but I would rather be protected then at much higher risk of getting H1N1 because I'm afraid of some unlikely adverse reaction. If I thought like that I would be afraid to leave the house because there is a very slight, however unlikely, chance I will be run over crossing the street.
To those who think "natural"products are safer then drugs and vaccines I think you need to really do more research. The majority of our drugs came from natural sources but we can administer them in pure forms and controlled dosages based on clinical trials in thousands of people. Natural products do not have such controls or restrictions yet. And I could tell you stories such as a weight loss tea from China somebody was wanting to import to the U.S. Turned out it was laced with synthetic amphetamines which acted as an appetite suppressant. Also, so called "organic" products can actually be more toxic to you then things grown at conventional farms. Mother nature has devised many natural toxins far more potent and harmful then anything we can come up with which are often found in higher concentrations in organic foods. Anyhow, if anybody wants to discuss any of the science behind the H1N1 virus or vaccines etc. I'll be happy to try to answer what questions I can. The rest of the debate is a bit pointless to me. Oh, and about aspartame. Don't get me started on that stupid debate. The amount of formalin generated by the metabolism of aspartame is no more then would be generated eating any other proteins because that is just what aspartame is. It is two amino acids linked together that happen to taste sweet. You would have to eat something like 30 pounds of pure aspartame to reach toxic levels of formalin. Again, this is people freaking out because they see that aspartame is broken down into formalin. Oh my god! But nobody asks how much and how that is detoxified in your body etc. You need to dig deeper into things before coming to conclusions. Aspartame IS completely safe in any amounts that anyone will reasonably consume. Now look...you've got me started again...  Last edited by Ron99; 11-01-2009 at 08:57 PM. 
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#122
11-01-2009, 09:35 PM
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Had the virus, not that big a deal. I would be more concerned about the results of the 1976 innoculation done for H1N1. There were some rather crappy side effects then. Not to mention the lack of testing done on this innoculation. So my question is, did everyone sell their stocks when the Media ruined our economy a year ago? Its just another thing the Media blows out of proportion, the economy is recovering nicely (in canada anyway) and they need something else to scare people with. Hundreds of thousands die each year from the regular flu. a couple hundred die from this virus and its a "epidemic" Let the sheep follow...
__________________
"what do you mean you need another tank??"
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#123
11-01-2009, 10:15 PM
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#124
11-02-2009, 01:33 AM
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Statistics say your more likely to die from the common flu than from swine flu.
Personally I think there is alot more risk driving here in Edmonton than the H1N1! 
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#125
11-02-2009, 02:00 AM
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Last year in Edmonton there were 21 traffic fatalities. There is about 1 million people in the greater Edmonton area so statistically there is only about a 21 in a million chance of dying in a car accident here. Should I take out the car seats for my 2 girls and stop making them wear seat belts? Statistics aren't very comforting if you or a loved one is one of the 21. As a parent it is my responsibility to do everything I can to protect my family and if putting on a seat belt lessens the risk to 1 in million then I will do it. I personaly would never base a decision on statistics because if you are the unlucky one then the statistical rate is 1:1.
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#126
11-02-2009, 03:07 AM
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I also finding this discussion becoming tedious so I think this will be my last contribution. It is truly unfortunate that there are people who continue to hold views in light of evidence to the contrary. A few last comments.
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Searching H1N1 vaccine, I get 1217 journal references for h1n1 vaccine - 46 for the month of October alone. You would then have to go to a university biomedical library to read these articles as they are subscription based and very few are available for free. Other searches yield about 3500 references for H1N1 and 3000 for H5N1 on which the Arepanrix vaccine was based upon. Quote:
Very common (may occur with more than 1 in 10 doses): Pain at the injection site, Headache, Fatigue, Redness or swelling at the injection site, Shivering, Sweating, Aching muscles, joint pain Common (may occur with up to 1 in 10 doses):Reactions at the injection site such as bruising, itching and warmth, Fever, Swollen lympth nodes, Feeling sick, diarrhea Uncommon (may occur with up to 1 in 100 doses): Dizziness, Generally feeling unwell, Unusual weakness, Vomiting, stomach pain, uncomfortable feeling in the stomach or belching after eating, ability to sleep, Tingling or numbness of the hands or feet, Shortness of breath, Pain in the chest, Itching, rash, Pain in the back or neck, stiffness in the muscles, muscle spasms, pain in extremity such as leg or hand Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 1000 doses): Allergic reactions leading to a dangerous decrease of blood pressure, which, if untreated, may lead to shock. Doctors are aware of this possibility and have emergency treatment available for use in such cases, Fits, Severe stabbing or throbbing pain along one or more nerves, Low blood platelet count which can result in bleeding or bruising Very Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 10,000 doses): Vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels which can cause skin rashes, joint pain and kidney problems), Neurological disorders such as encephalomyelitis (inflammation of the central nervous system), neuritis (inflammation of nerves) and a type of paralysis known a Guillain-Barré Syndrome Most of the side effects are what you would expect with any vaccination - pain, bruising and swelling. I would expect the list of rare side effects is there for legal reasons so someone could not say they were uninformed. For comparison, here is a list of possible side effects from the information sheet for Alka Seltzer: nausea, vomiting, ringing in ears, diminished hearing, confusion, agitation, lethargy, fever, coma, respiratory alkalosis, metabolic acidosis, convulsions, pulmonary edema, cardiovascular collapse. One last word on Aspartame. A medline search of 111 references regarding Aspartame toxicity gives us the publicly accessible reference. Note the last line in the abstract - Aspartame is safe! Crit Rev Toxicol. 2007;37(8):629-727. Aspartame: a safety evaluation based on current use levels, regulations, and toxicological and epidemiological studies. Magnuson BA, Burdock GA, Doull J, Kroes RM, Marsh GM, Pariza MW, Spencer PS, Waddell WJ, Walker R, Williams GM. Burdock Group, Washington, DC, USA. bmagnuso@umd.edu Aspartame is a methyl ester of a dipeptide used as a synthetic nonnutritive sweetener in over 90 countries worldwide in over 6000 products. The purpose of this investigation was to review the scientific literature on the absorption and metabolism, the current consumption levels worldwide, the toxicology, and recent epidemiological studies on aspartame. Current use levels of aspartame, even by high users in special subgroups, remains well below the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and European Food Safety Authority established acceptable daily intake levels of 50 and 40 mg/kg bw/day, respectively. Consumption of large doses of aspartame in a single bolus dose will have an effect on some biochemical parameters, including plasma amino acid levels and brain neurotransmitter levels. The rise in plasma levels of phenylalanine and aspartic acid following administration of aspartame at doses less than or equal to 50 mg/kg bw do not exceed those observed postprandially. Acute, subacute and chronic toxicity studies with aspartame, and its decomposition products, conducted in mice, rats, hamsters and dogs have consistently found no adverse effect of aspartame with doses up to at least 4000 mg/kg bw/day. Critical review of all carcinogenicity studies conducted on aspartame found no credible evidence that aspartame is carcinogenic. The data from the extensive investigations into the possibility of neurotoxic effects of aspartame, in general, do not support the hypothesis that aspartame in the human diet will affect nervous system function, learning or behavior. Epidemiological studies on aspartame include several case-control studies and one well-conducted prospective epidemiological study with a large cohort, in which the consumption of aspartame was measured. The studies provide no evidence to support an association between aspartame and cancer in any tissue. The weight of existing evidence is that aspartame is safe at current levels of consumption as a nonnutritive sweetener.
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#127
11-02-2009, 04:50 AM
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 It's too late for me I think....
__________________
http://www.canreef.com/ftotm/sept05/index.php
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#128
11-02-2009, 05:01 AM
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http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/nwsrm/rlss/...80123-eng.html "26 offenders to more than 37 years in prison. Sentences for those who were ordered to serve jail time for tax-related offenses ranged from 1 month to 3 years." owch, personally i don't think that's worth it. no one should be jailed for tax evasion considering no harm was technically done. Quote:
(37 years jail time) X ($25,000 per year to jail an inmate.)= $925,000 / (26 people imprisoned) = ~35,000 per person. what amount of tax collection from these people will justify their imprisonment to you? Quote:
there is nothing wrong with question income taxes. especially since direct taxation by the federal government used to be unlawful , again.... history. before ww1, no income tax, after ww1 income tax. basic high school history at that. Quote:
i never said or remember anyone who said the h1n1 vaccine is a requirement... that definition/example was given to help illustrate how the government doesn't really care about the welfare of its people not suggest they are willing to extort us to take vaccines. Quote:
 Last edited by FitoPharmer; 11-02-2009 at 05:36 AM.
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#129
11-02-2009, 05:47 AM
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This thread is becoming a bit pointless with all the bickering & the tangents in which some people are headed.
The point is a gathering of thoughts & opinions on the H1N1 Virus & it's associated Vaccines. Scientific data, conspiracy theories, news reports, personal experiences count for more than arguments about tax collection & not so subtle side swipes & insults towards each other. I obviously have no moderator authority here, but I did start this thread & politely ask that it stays on topic so it can remain a useful point of info/interest, and I also ask that it remains friendly. Nobody wants anything bad to happen to any of us or our loved ones, hence the big debate. But knocking someone else's beliefs with insults isn't nice whether it's religion, politics or swine flu we're talking about. Please keep an open mind & be safe. Thanks. Sermon over! .
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#130
11-02-2009, 06:33 AM
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"Among Arepanrix™ H5N1 or Pandemix™ H5N1 recipients, five (<0.1%) had fatal serious adverse events, including two instances of ovarian carcinoma, a metastatic malignancy of unspecified type, a myocardial infarction, and exacerbation of diabetes mellitus and hepatic cirrhosis. Among placebo recipients, three (0.1%) sustained fatal serious adverse events one instance of brain neoplasm, one instance of cardiomegaly secondary to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and one instance of bilateral pneumonia. During six months of follow-up for the entire group of 9,873 Arepanrix™ or Pandemrix™ H5N1 recipients, 7 (<0.1%) reported an Adverse Event of Special Interest as defined by EMEA. Four subjects reported facial palsy (Bell’s palsy) at intervals ranging from hours to 135 days after vaccine exposure; all of these resolved spontaneously and completely. A 45 year old male had an anaphylactic reaction to food six (6) days after first exposure to H5N/AS03 vaccine, and a 25 year old white female had a single episode of convulsions 35 days after the second dose. None of these Adverse Events of Special Interest was assessed as treatment-related by the investigators. One 48 year old female had “neuritis” with onset almost immediately after injection. Symptoms were localized entirely to the injected arm and compatible with a perineural injection injury; the problem resolved spontaneously. Eleven of 9,873 (0.1%) Arepanrix™ or Pandemrix™ H5N1 recipients were reported to have potential immune-mediated diseases. Diagnoses included two instances of psoriasis, four instances of polymyalgia rheumatica (all in 59 to 84 year-old women, three of whom had symptoms antedating vaccine), and one instance each of Grave’s disease, uveitis, scleroderma, isolated IVth nerve palsy, and erythema nodosum. None of these was assessed as a serious adverse event or as related to the investigational vaccine by the investigators." "Pain at the injection site was the most commonly reported solicited local symptom in both Arepanrix™ H5N1 and placebo groups and was reported at a 6-fold higher frequency (i.e. following 73% of doses) in the Arepanrix™ H5N1 group. Despite the high incidence of injection site pain, the incidence of severe pain was low, with reports occurring after 2.7% of Arepanrix™ H5N1 doses and 0.4% of placebo doses. Overall, severe solicited or unsolicited adverse events of any type occurred in the 7 days after 6.4 to 7.0% of Arepanrix™ H5N1 doses and 3.6% of placebo doses. The most common severe solicited adverse event was local injection site pain; all severe general solicited adverse events occurred after <2% of doses. Other/Additional adverse reactions reported are listed according to the following frequency classification: Very common (≥1/10) Common (≥1/100 to <1/10) Uncommon (≥1/1,000 to <1/100) Rare (≥1/10,000 to <1/1,000) Very rare (<1/10,000) Not known (cannot be estimated from the available data) Blood and lymphatic system disorders Common: lymphadenopathy Psychiatric disorders Uncommon: insomnia Nervous system disorders Uncommon: dizziness, paraesthesia Ear and labyrinth disorders Uncommon: vertigo Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders Uncommon: dyspnoea Gastrointestinal disorders Common: nausea, diarrhoea Uncommon: abdominal pain, vomiting, dyspepsia, stomach discomfort Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders Common: pruritus Uncommon: rash Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders Uncommon: back pain, musculoskeletal stiffness, neck pain, muscle spasms, pain in extremity General disorders and administration site conditions Common: injection site reactions (such as bruising, pruritus, warmth) Uncommon: asthenia, chest pain, malaise" Quote:
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Last edited by FitoPharmer; 11-02-2009 at 06:39 AM.
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