Apex/ electrical/GFI messed up.Help.

[reefwithareefer]

Originally Posted by reef-keeper

You should get an amp meter and see the actual draw verses what your reading say. Most amp spikes come from initial startup. Then lower to normal operation. And I agree with Myka that the GFCI receptacle might have gotten soft and is triggering with very little draw. We had to replace all the ones we have at work due premature failure. We installed breakers. Haven't had any issues since.

And that is the strange thing. Nothing starts or shuts off at the time this happens.
When I say I am not an electrician it is an understatement, as I do not even understand how to use a multimeter, yet I have 2 of them.

[mike31154]

Originally Posted by reefwithareefer

And that is the strange thing. Nothing starts or shuts off at the time this happens.
When I say I am not an electrician it is an understatement, as I do not even understand how to use a multimeter, yet I have 2 of them.

Probably best to get an electrician in then.

Troubleshooting what you're describing without circuit diagrams, proper test equipment & being able to physically see your equipment is a guessing game online. Sure there are a few things you can try, but you're talking spikes of 75 & 29.3 amps on house circuits that are rated for 15 amps max on a feeder circuit rated for 40 amps. That is scary! There should be some roasted wire by now if those readings are accurate. You mention GFI tripping but also talk about breakers tripping. Can you confirm both GFI & breakers tripping or only GFI?

As already mentioned, GFI devices monitor/compare current coming in on the hot lead (black) & return current via neutral (white). An imbalance of 4 to 6 milliamps will trip the GFI device. That's 0.004 to 0.006 amps, anything above which is considered capable of killing a person. A circuit breaker on the other hand, is designed to protect wiring from over current & prevent it from catching fire/burning down your house. It will not protect you from electrocution.

Folks mention that replacing a GFCI plug or outlet with a GFI circuit breaker has solved their problems & that may be so, but each of these devices is designed to trip at the same 4 to 6milliamps that protect you from electrocution. GFCI circuit breakers are expensive & typically use two spots in your breaker panel, they are large. Throw in a couple of AFCI breakers & things get tight real quick in your electrical panel. If you have the room in your panel & the $$$'s that's great. I have one GFCI breaker but use in wall outlets for a number of other locations where code calls for that type of protection. In my experience the GFCI wall outlets don't exhibit excessive nuisance trips & reset automatically in the event of a power outage when power comes back on. I've tripped the ones on my aquarium occasionally when unplugging equipment during a water change. Don't consider that abnormal, since unplugging running equipment often causes a spark at the plug & that could certainly cause a brief amperage imbalance that the GFCI sees.

High power ballasts that run MH & T5HO lights produce very high voltages at startup & there are plenty of examples of this type of lighting causing tank owners grief with GFCI devices. My guess is that the GFCIs are located a bit too close to the ballasts & there is some EMI happening, or that there is actually a problem with a ballast.

From the amperage numbers you're throwing around & several other symptoms you've described, my guess is that one or more of the relays in your controller power bars are cooked/fused, but that's a guess. Triacs were also mentioned, high current will cook them even faster than a mechanical relay. Get some professional help to check your gear.

[reefwithareefer]

Originally Posted by mike31154

Probably best to get an electrician in then.

Troubleshooting what you're describing without circuit diagrams, proper test equipment & being able to physically see your equipment is a guessing game online. Sure there are a few things you can try, but you're talking spikes of 75 & 29.3 amps on house circuits that are rated for 15 amps max on a feeder circuit rated for 40 amps. That is scary! There should be some roasted wire by now if those readings are accurate. You mention GFI tripping but also talk about breakers tripping. Can you confirm both GFI & breakers tripping or only GFI?

As already mentioned, GFI devices monitor/compare current coming in on the hot lead (black) & return current via neutral (white). An imbalance of 4 to 6 milliamps will trip the GFI device. That's 0.004 to 0.006 amps, anything above which is considered capable of killing a person. A circuit breaker on the other hand, is designed to protect wiring from over current & prevent it from catching fire/burning down your house. It will not protect you from electrocution.

Folks mention that replacing a GFCI plug or outlet with a GFI circuit breaker has solved their problems & that may be so, but each of these devices is designed to trip at the same 4 to 6milliamps that protect you from electrocution. GFCI circuit breakers are expensive & typically use two spots in your breaker panel, they are large. Throw in a couple of AFCI breakers & things get tight real quick in your electrical panel. If you have the room in your panel & the $$$'s that's great. I have one GFCI breaker but use in wall outlets for a number of other locations where code calls for that type of protection. In my experience the GFCI wall outlets don't exhibit excessive nuisance trips & reset automatically in the event of a power outage when power comes back on. I've tripped the ones on my aquarium occasionally when unplugging equipment during a water change. Don't consider that abnormal, since unplugging running equipment often causes a spark at the plug & that could certainly cause a brief amperage imbalance that the GFCI sees.

High power ballasts that run MH & T5HO lights produce very high voltages at startup & there are plenty of examples of this type of lighting causing tank owners grief with GFCI devices. My guess is that the GFCIs are located a bit too close to the ballasts & there is some EMI happening, or that there is actually a problem with a ballast.

From the amperage numbers you're throwing around & several other symptoms you've described, my guess is that one or more of the relays in your controller power bars are cooked/fused, but that's a guess. Triacs were also mentioned, high current will cook them even faster than a mechanical relay. Get some professional help to check your gear.

Yes, it should be scary. The thing is, there are no burnt wires or smell of burnt wires, nothing that has caused great concern that way. It is why I am wondering if it is just the apex "twitching" with how many amps are running through it.
No, the breakers have not gone off, just the one GFI. Which makes it all the more strange as both breakers are run off the 40 amp breaker.

Lights, ballasts and eb8s are all about 6ft apart from one another.

I have apex support looking into it and if they can not find anything, I will probably call an Electrician to come look. Last time I called one for a similar issue, he made it sound like it would be impossible to locate the issue etc etc

[reefwithareefer]

I have unplugged the MH light to see if any spikes in amperage happen today.