You get what you pay for?! A marketing hype or a reality?

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

But if you sold frags, you'd more than recover that $500 with those extra inches.

Also, often, when paying more, you get greater reliability and warranty. Not always, but often. I expect that my 8 year old Tunze will still be going long after my WP60 dies.

Come on Brad do you really think a hobbyist can "recover" money by selling frags? Whatever comes out of the tank goes in with added interest

[Delphinus]

I think it depends. I expect that some brands will offer more value in some respects but not always.

I use IO because I have not found any value in paying for more expensive salt. I use bulk Ca/Alk/Mg additives, which I would have to buy anyhow to dose my tank with to compensate for losses thereof due to coral growth - so I have it onhand regardless - to match parameter for parameter those values you might expect in a more expensive salt. It's just that experience has taught me that I pay less for the additives I use to achieve that, than I would be paying extra for the more expensive salt. So I save money on salt and the tradeoff is I put a little extra effort in the form of testing a new bucket (which experience has also taught me that you should do regardless: just because a salt brand is more expensive does not mean that there aren't the occasional bad batches). In this case I find I defray my purchase price by investing a little bit of time.

Also in the case of LED's I did find that certain products may be overpriced. Knowing what I know now, I realize I could have built a DIY solution for far less than what I paid for the off-the-shelf solution I elected to go with. That said, I didn't really want to do a DIY solution at the time just because I had other projects to finish and I felt my time was worth more (I guess because I need more time to test my salt buckets )

But this:

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I expect that my 8 year old Tunze will still be going long after my WP60 dies.

I am a long time Tunze fan myself but lately I am finding that I am not getting more longevity out of the units. I still have original $20 Maxijets from 12 years ago and they run fine, but I've replaced probably 4 out of 5 Tunzes on my big tank in the last two years because of premature failure. To be honest I was starting to think that if another one goes soon I might just go with Jebao's or whatever they're called, if I pay $80 and get 1-2 years out of it, that's a far better cost proposition than paying $200-260(*) and getting 1-3 years out of it.

(*My wavebox is now also having issues, I'm not sure if it's in the connector or the pump, but to replace THAT particular pump (6100) is $260 whereas to replace a 6105 motor core is closer to $200. One of my 6105's died altogether last month so I chose to replace that one first.)

I still like Tunzes in the meantime because .. I just like what they offer.

[kien]

..and nevermind the hundreds of thousands of people who will scratch their heads when you tell them how much ANYTHING relating to your tank costs. To you it's totally worth it to buy a $30 bucket of salt, $5 jar of fish food, $10 for a 1" frag. These things may seem inexpensive to you but there are more people who would deem those things EXPENSIVE at any cost. The point here being, even the term "expensive" is relative.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by kien

..and nevermind the hundreds of thousands of people who will scratch their heads when you tell them how much ANYTHING relating to your tank costs. To you it's totally worth it to buy a $30 bucket of salt, $5 jar of fish food, $10 for a 1" frag. These things may seem inexpensive to you but there are more people who would deem those things EXPENSIVE at any cost.

Totally agree. But when someone posts a comment about which fixture of light to buy or which powerhead to buy, there seems to be numerous post supporting to buy the things with heavier price tag instead of saying "buy whichever suits your need". You shouldn't judge anything based on the price but should ask "does it worth it to pay that much" and thus personal judgement comes. I have experienced it numerous time myself in this forum starting from buying lights to buying skimmer.

[Coralgurl]

From my limited experience and reading this and other forums, there is definitely a "hype" component, especially when it comes to new technologies. Wireless features, LED's, skimmer technologies etc. Think about when lighting changed so that corals could be kept in aquariums, lighting improved so that tougher corals could be kept. When these products first came out, I can imagine how expensive they were. Now there is more selection, pricing drops. I bought G1 Radions, within 6 months, the price dropped, within a year the G2's came out, dropping the value of mine even lower. This is not a cheap hobby period. I think the "get what you pay for" applies more so to used items rather than new. Trying to save money on used, not sure of condition, seller, history etc., means money you save up front could cost thousands if it fails (return pump off ex).

Each person's equipment set up is as unique as each person's tank inhabitants. I don't need to rush out and buy the latest and greatest, my tank suits me.

[Scythanith]

"Is it worth it?" is very much in the eye of the beholder. I bought literally the most expensive pump I could without ever seeing one in person let alone using it. Why you may ask? It wasn't a "look at my Ferrari" moment. It was a "I want the most efficient, controllable, and backed product on the market" decision. Same reason I bought my BK skimmer and LED lights from GHL…. reliability and track record. I have no problem paying for a companies R&D. Without companies that do the hard work, knock-off companies like Jebao would have nothing to copy.

I think you'd find if money wasn't a barrier (I don't mean that as a cut to whatever your financial situation is) you'd buy the name brands when possible.

And for what it's worth I have never had to replace parts on my vortech mp40's. They have been running for ~4-5 years. I clean the wet side once every 6 months maybe. Now my Profilux controls them and synchronizes feeding and maintenance modes with my light, skimmer, return pump, vortech mp40's. For me that compatibility between products is worth every penny.

Just my two cents.
Scott

[Aquattro]

I've been running Tunze 6100 pumps since they came out. One is from the original shipmant J&L received. I've replaced the impeller once. I put it in this tank 4 years ago, pointed it, and it goes.

I recently bought a much less expensive WP60. More flow, sure. But every couple of weeks is starts sucking air from the surface. That annoys me, I have to play with it. I also find that in most modes, I can hear it in the next room.

As Scott stated above, barring monetary barriers, I would choose a Tunze over a budget Jabeo any day. That being said, my expectations for the WP60 are much lower, and overall, I feel with both pumps, I got what I paid for.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Coralgurl

From my limited experience and reading this and other forums, there is definitely a "hype" component, especially when it comes to new technologies. Wireless features, LED's, skimmer technologies etc. Think about when lighting changed so that corals could be kept in aquariums, lighting improved so that tougher corals could be kept. When these products first came out, I can imagine how expensive they were. Now there is more selection, pricing drops. I bought G1 Radions, within 6 months, the price dropped, within a year the G2's came out, dropping the value of mine even lower. This is not a cheap hobby period. I think the "get what you pay for" applies more so to used items rather than new. Trying to save money on used, not sure of condition, seller, history etc., means money you save up front could cost thousands if it fails (return pump off ex).

Each person's equipment set up is as unique as each person's tank inhabitants. I don't need to rush out and buy the latest and greatest, my tank suits me.

Nicely explained Sheena

Originally Posted by Scythanith

"Is it worth it?" is very much in the eye of the beholder. I bought literally the most expensive pump I could without ever seeing one in person let alone using it. Why you may ask? It wasn't a "look at my Ferrari" moment. It was a "I want the most efficient, controllable, and backed product on the market" decision. Same reason I bought my BK skimmer and LED lights from GHL…. reliability and track record. I have no problem paying for a companies R&D. Without companies that do the hard work, knock-off companies like Jebao would have nothing to copy.

I think you'd find if money wasn't a barrier (I don't mean that as a cut to whatever your financial situation is) you'd buy the name brands when possible.

And for what it's worth I have never had to replace parts on my vortech mp40's. They have been running for ~4-5 years. I clean the wet side once every 6 months maybe. Now my Profilux controls them and synchronizes feeding and maintenance modes with my light, skimmer, return pump, vortech mp40's. For me that compatibility between products is worth every penny.

Just my two cents.
Scott

I totally agree with what you have said. It is a personal choice and should remain it that way. Someone asking "I bought an odyssea fixture, which lights should I put in" and people jump in saying "nothing is going to work cause you get what you pay for" is just obsolete. It should be what you have explained..."pay for what you want to". No one needs expensive stuffs in this hobby to succeed but the market and some people just put it that way.

About the China's coping comment, yes I do agree. Without some companies, China would have to come up with their own designs which would, in turn, increase the cost of the products but still won't be that expensive. And about the creativity/design concept, I can't say anything about that but all I can say is "people always find a way". I will keep this in mind for another thread for another day

Well I do use brand stuffs and with more affordability, I would definitely move to better stuffs but obviously will not spend money on things which are not "required". Like I would spend money on a better reflector for light but definitely not on something that has fancy things which I will never use. I would probably add more smaller powerhead instead of spending on vortec. I would buy an efficient skimmer that gets the job done instead of paying for brand names. Like you said, personal preferences and not relying on "you get what you pay for".

[wickedfrags]

agreed, personal worth.

my 36" light fixture has a higher replacement value than my primary vehicle (which I also really like).

not everyone gets that.............ok most will never get that!

Originally Posted by kien

Part of the problem is that "worth" and "value" are very subjective terms which underscore the phrase, "You get what you pay for." We've already got plenty of examples of this with your car analogy.

In our household we do own a more expensive Audi which in my opinion is over priced for what you get. It has 4 wheels that gets you from point A to Point B. My much cheaper Murano does the same thing and is actually much more comfortable to drive and hauls more junk in the trunk.

And I for one don't think it's expensive to buy a bucket of H2Ocean while everyone who uses IO will think it's ridiculously expensive. Meanwhile, I went to Starbucks rather than Tim Hortons for a coffee today. Did I get what I paid for? Well, I paid $5 for a coffee and I got a $5 coffee, so I guess I got what I paid for

Bottom line, yes, you get what you pay for, and no, you don't get what you pay for.