Ok, let's hear it!

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

With halides, your heater runs less; with LED, your heater runs more

Ok sorry this makes no sense, MH pump out stacks of heat to the degree you need a chiller or cooling fans, with LED the heat is minimal and they have built in fans. I dont have either on my tank. If I had MH I would need one or the other.

Originally Posted by mrhasan

And about mitras. I won't say anything I love the ability of that fixture; GHL knows how to utilize LED on reefs - that's for sure. But I hate the packaging. Fishes don't wear sunglasses! Get realistic...maybe that's holding me back from getting it? Oh wait...its the $1000 price tag = almost 7 years of my bulb replacement. Damn!

we all know the sunglasses are just a gimmick bit of fun i dont see how that has any relevance The packaging has also no reflection on the units ability to perform. So you are saying your purchasing choices are made based on a glossy box. Great news the GHL now has a glossy box

In regards to the price, its the technology you are buying, its up to the consumer if they wish to take that leap to the next level.

Dont take my reply the wrong way, just having a bit of light hearted banter with you on a Sunday evening.

[typezero]

I personally dont like the general tank look of a pure t5ho tank. But the corals coloration are great! I was going to go with the power module and add 2 reef brights for the shimmer and pop which I like the look of. After the cost of a power module and 2 reef brights you are up there already.
At the end of the day i paid a little premium to get the ati hybrid to have a nice complete package hanging on top of my tank.
From my experience with leds, watt for watt they grow my sps great, dare I say better than t5ho alone. But colouration is lacking in the sps. So the white led on my hybrids can provide the muscle to grow my corals so i can pack the lights with blue plus and purple plus bulbs to obtain the colours in the coral.
Cost to run T5ho is negligible to me because when i purchase specific coral for top $ it frustrates me that i cannot obtain the colouration that i bought it for.
So to sum it up the hybrids to me... Offer a compact neat package that offers leds growth advantage, with the t5ho colouration advantage and the shimmer and pop the blue/ royal blues offer.

I think this thread is awesome, one of the main reasons we keep a reef tank is due to the crazy colours we get to see in our tanks. So picking a fixture that works for YOU in your own unique SITUATION (tank size, what corals you own, cost running, cost for initial purchase etc) is very important.
IMO theres no perfect fixture out there, you just gatta weigh the pros and cons for each one and see which one offers more pros to you.

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

It seems more and more people are coming out of the lighting closet. Who else is ditching their LEDs for other options??

[waynemah]

I was able to grow huge colonies from frags with LED. But when you want the coverage and brightness, you need to spend big $$$. This is where the line was drawn for me.

Maybe LED's have too many options and not enough testing. You can easily tune yourself out of an acceptable range for your corals. I would invest in an LED again if there were limited presets with static height/coverage requirements. Don't over sell/rate your product and give the customer an educated recipe for optimal coral color and growth.

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by waynemah

I would invest in an LED again if there were limited presets with static height/coverage requirements. Don't over sell/rate your product and give the customer an educated recipe for optimal coral color and growth.

This is something that GHL have thought about doing. A cut down unit with known workable presets, bit like using different preset T5 tubes.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by jorjef

Yes the subject is very appropriate and I like reading about others experiences and opinions but its someones relentless push to have everyone conform to their way of thinking and opinion that has me a wee bit bent. I have LED and think they're fine.

I am pretty sure that no one is "relentlessly pushing". It has been mentioned a lot of time in this thread that in the end, its personal choice. From my perspective, I haven't complained anywhere in this thread about "growth" or "color". Infact, I didn't start commenting till Michael came forth with the "cost" issue. That's where I start. THE COST. I have also said LEDs has lots of bells and whistles that comes down to personal preference. I don't have problem with that. I don't have problem with growth/color because I have never used LED to judge those two parameters. But when someone comes down to tell me, "hey get a $1000 LED for the tank and you gonna save lot of electricity and money", that's where I have problem. Color/growth: these are upto Nick, Denny and Brad to comment on, they moved away from LED after using it. I hope that clears things up. Its all about proof. Electricity and cost are just numbers and nothing related to experience. BCHydro/Enmax won't come over to check whether you are using LEDs and charge you accordingly

Originally Posted by Aquattro

For me, I moved to LED to reduce moisture in the house, which it did very well. And they also kept about 95% of the color for over the year I used them. Pretty impressed with that. They also have dimming capabilities, which is pretty cool. Another plus! But, I would rather have 100% of the color, which T5 is giving me. T5 is also an unfamiliar technology to me, I've never used them. But so far I'm impressed. My chiller comes on as much with them as it did with LED. The light looks nicer, the corals look nicer. I do not have dimming. I have to change bulbs. Both are negligible at my point in the hobby. I do not for a second believe any other brand or model of LED would have been different. They just don't provide what I'm looking for. I may even start liking my T5 better than MH. I know, right??

To Michael: LEDs doesn't necessarily eliminate chiller like I have mentioned earlier with proof. And there you go I didn't make that up

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

You know, I really don't understand this whole ditching LEDs discussion. As I mentioned earlier, I used to have T5s before I went to Radions, and can't imagine going back. No question, they are a lot cooler and cost less energy, incl less chiller running. And yet some here have argued otherwise!!! Don't know what they are smoking...

As for the looks, yes, T5s are nice, but I can adjust my LED colours to anything I want, and by time of day. I can make SPS glow, if I want...

I run mine on the Natural Mode which simulates the sun through the day, and my corals seem to really like it. SPS keeps growing like crazy and getting good colour out of everything. I tried playing with different colours, but I honestly don't like the "artificial" look. And I have seen some tanks like that, and each to their own, I guess.

IMO, I think a lot of non-LED users here are being very much misled. Maybe some LEDs are not as good, and maybe some people don't know how to use theirs properly with all the different settings and adjustments.

But my Radions (both Gen 1s and Gen 2s) have all worked flawlessly from day 1, and I couldn't be happier with them.

Since I am the only non-LED user over here, I would like to be pointed out where I mislead. Cost-benefit? Electricity savings? Well, that's the two part I talked about. There's obviously a cut-off region for those two to get inverted from their typical outcome (the numbers of years for cost-benefit would significantly decrease and electricity savings will be huge) but those are for HUGE tank sizes. Like a 8' or a 10' tank.

To Michael (again :P): I would love to get some numbers from you. Can you please give me the electricity consumption of your system (with LED and without chiller) for a month? Another number, that I am also hoping to get from you or you can collect it from someone with a similar system with a similar location, is the electricity consumption with T5/MH/both. I don't need the Watt (that's gonna be higher for MH anyways) but I need the KWh consumption for a month. This will not only help me (to prove me wrong or right) but will possibly be a good for you. Will really appreciate if you can give me those two numbers Kill-a-watt meters are fine

[jorjef]

No not you Mr. H.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Electricity savings?

This is another selling point. But again, for me, I don't give a damn about electricity costs. I run a giant box of water in my livingroom, that is an expensive undertaking If it costs 20 or 200/month, I don't care. I want the best SPS I can grow.

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Since I am the only non-LED user over here, I would like to be pointed out where I mislead. Cost-benefit? Electricity savings? Well, that's the two part I talked about. There's obviously a cut-off region for those two to get inverted from their typical outcome (the numbers of years for cost-benefit would significantly decrease and electricity savings will be huge) but those are for HUGE tank sizes. Like a 8' or a 10' tank.

This is a pretty fast moving thread.... But please don't get mad at me...LOL. I did not say or suggest that you or any non-LED users were misleading. Instead I said you were being misled,... big difference.

And in your case specifically, you are probably a good example of this. You have no direct experience with LED, yet you seem to be taking the side against LEDs and choose who you want to quote or back up your argument. If you want to talk about cost savings, why don't you go back and read my earlier post in this thread where I gave some real data on my usage and savings.

[Aqua-Digital]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

To Michael: LEDs doesn't necessarily eliminate chiller like I have mentioned earlier with proof. And there you go I didn't make that up

Then I have concerns about that LED. why would my tank running on LED be any different to the next, I dont need a chiller and never have running LED.

LED's give out heat when driven hard, if the lamp does not have enough sufficient cooling which in turn effects the lamps PAR output then its not designed correctly.