Help!! Ich!!

[EmilyB]

Originally Posted by bulletsworld

OMG! I'd hate to be your fish!

Well nite nite stressor!

Good luck Lofus!

My originals are still here after five years...so don't be too quick to judge.

My fish are pretty happy with their Euroreefs and waterchanges and massive feedings.

[MitchM]

Originally Posted by EmilyB

I'm sure I am not alone here with the non-stress about ick ??

You're not alone.......

Providing a stress-free environment should be the first step in keeping ANY marine organism.
You can quarantine and treat all you like, but if the fish' immune system is going to be compromised by being kept in an inadequate set-up, it will shorten it's life one way or another.

In the early stages of ich infestation, I believe that it can be overcome with a simple reduction of stress factors.
If the infestation is too great, then it will probably have to be moved to a hospital tank, with hypo, IMO.

Over the years, I've seen ich in my tanks a few times, have only had to "hospital tank" one fish, and have never lost one due to ich.

Mitch

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by bulletsworld

OMG! I'd hate to be your fish!

Well nite nite stressor!

Good luck Lofus!

If I ever died and came back as an aquarium fish, I would want to be in EmB's tank. I have seen her stop at nothing to provide the absolute best environment she can for all her charges. Her fish have been with her for years and years, and anytime she has inadvertently caused stress to her fish, she has done anythig andeverything to corect the mishap.
She also gives great advice when it comes to treating fish. I agree whole-heartedly....clean up the water, and feed garlic. None of tis stupid hyposalinity and copper crap, just clean water and an immune system boost. I have used this method the one time I had a huge ich outbreak 2 years ago, and have not seen it since.
If you don't like the garlic trick, don't use t. But it does work, we'll continue to post this advice here, and it would be appreciated if you refrained from insulting other members. If you have adive to give, step up the box, politely say your bit, and step down.

[AJ_77]

I've got to go with EmilyB and Carpentersreef on this one, mainly because they're the high priests of my order, so to speak. Any success I've had in this hobby so far has come from listening to them and experienced hobbiests like them, and reading up on the variables and diseases that may confront me.

I don't see why this thread should have gotten snippy at all.

<edit - I see Brad has addressed this.>

[Cap'n]

Originally Posted by bulletsworld

Wow, you gotta lot of reading to do.

If you only knew the amount of reading and research I have done!

Here's one of the brainstorms from one of the articles you provided:

If an aquarium has no fish in it, and there are no additions of fish, or anything else that could be carrying trophonts, tomonts, tomites or theronts for a period of 6 weeks or longer, all parasites will have died. An aquarium such as this is an obvious exception to "Ich" always being present.

An aquarium without fish won't have ich? Who knew?

I believe people all too often look at fish care too clinically, you have to remember, they are people too. I have a cold right now. I don't have it because I was introduced to a new environment that contained the flu virus. I caught this through trying to maintain a nightowl lifestyle while getting up for work extremely early (IMO). I let my immune system weaken, my defenses went down and voila! summer cold.

Bullet, I always appreciate advice, that's why I'm here, but don't TELL me I'm wrong, SUGGEST you know an alternative. Take a look at the tone of the other regular posters and you'll see how we can all disagree politely,

Cpt Constraint

[Cap'n]

And no, I don't use a QT. I believe they cause unnecessary stress.

[Lofus]

Update...a lot of controversy here.

The Ich appears to me mostly gone with the garlic and water changes having done the trick. I am thinking of upgrading my skimmer now as the added feedings are causing a diatom bloom. (or perhaps I just need a reason to play with the gear! )

Until a few weeks ago I can say with certainty that there was no Ich in the tank. Every fish with the exception of the last addition has been QT'd for at least 4 weeks to break the cycle.

I got impatitent with the blenny I recently added and he went in the main tank after only two weeks. Now I know better. I've been at this hobby for about a year and a half now and this is my first ich case.

None of the other fish are showing any signs.

Thanks for help Em, Carp, Riff, AJ, etc..

[bulletsworld]

Originally Posted by EmilyB

I'm sure I am not alone here with the non-stress about ick ??

I never disagreed. I totally agree that water quality, temp, stress reduction and preventive measures, etc, all play important roles and are extremely important.

I practice this in my own experiences with housing boxfish that have the ability to release ostracitoxin, a poison that can kill ALL tank inhabitants (a total tank melt down) when stressed. Many hobbyist stay clear of this fish for that reason alone. Hence why my boxfish is named “Bullets” (user name). For this reason I must emphasize the importance of creating a stress-free environment to successfully house these fish. But it didn’t stop ich from entering my tank after I didn’t QT the new addition, which seemed free of disease at the time. Guess I had to learn the hard way, as I know others here have too. * hugs *

So, I must say again I never disputed or disagreed about the importance of maintaining a stress-free environment. But what I do disagree with, IMO & my own experience is that ich is not always present, and creating a stress-free environment, hoping that the fish gains immunity or partial immunity alone, to the fast reproducing parasite, is a BIG risk and is not a cure. The risk could result in the demise of the fish that is heavily infected. If you have an infected tank that has not been treated, any new fish added in the future may become infected. Yikes!

I think we can pretty much all agree that prevention is preferable to treatment for any disease. IMO, I do believe that the practice of quarantining is often overlooked but is a crucial step toward prevention. So IMO, I would suggest quarantine, the use of no nets to capture and a natural method of treatment, garlic soaked foods and hyposalinity to eliminate ich. IMO, I will choose the cure anyday over juggling the dice, taking that big risk and hoping the fish will fight the disease themselves. Not to mention the stress one goes through & loss of sleep you experience if you see another white dot on your fishy friend. Or how about the emotional break down you go through after you lose your favorite friend.

Please note, it was never my intention to insult any members. My apologies if you feel that was the case. I feel that regardless of how long you have been in this hobby there is always something new to learn & discover. We all rely on one another, as well as other sources of information, to help us care for our marine friends. I think it is safe to say that all of us have a genuine passion & appreciation for our marine friends. We all want to see them in good health or we would not be here, sharing our own personal experiences and opinions to help one another.

Bulletsworld has stepped up to the speaker, politely said my bit and has now stepped down.

Good nite everyone & fishies! Sweet dreams!

Best of luck Lofus!

[Beverly]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

Last time I battled ick on a tang, it was on my recently-introduced red sea sailfin tang (almost 2 years ago). I checked the above parameters and found my SG to be 1.027... I lowered it to 1.025 as well as soaked my nori in garlic oil (from the garlic pills you can get at the grocery), and the ick was gone within a week.

Finally had to read this thread to see what folks have been saying about ich treatment as I have battled it on and off over the past several months and am about to begin stocking my upgraded tanks.....

Ich will drop off a fish in a week whether or not you do anything to your tank. The on-the-fish stage of ich lasts only about a week. The rest of the time, the ich is going through the rest of its life cycle, and will reinfest fish once they get to the on-the-fish stage again in 2-4 weeks if fish are left in the ich tank.

Also, if one fish has ten ich spots, those few ich spots will multiply like crazy while in the not-on-the-fish part of their life cycle. When they become apparent on the fish again, there will be bazillions more that what you started out with, reinfesting the original fish and any other fish in the tank. For example, if a fish gets ich in the ocean, the fish will likely not die of ich because its range will be great enough to be able to avoid fatal reinfestion. In the closed and relatively small systems we run in our homes, there is no place for fish to go to not be reinfested.

As some people have pointed out, the use of LOTS of garlic soaked food has some positive effect on keeping the new on-the-fish ich off the fish. While I am not sure exactly why that works, my guess is that the garlic makes the fish reek of garlic and the ich will not attach to the stinky fish. I have used the garlic method with success and with failure as well.

From the reading I have done, mostly the links Leeanne has posted, it is best to remove all fish from the ich tank to a hospital tank. Treat for 6 weeks, while keeping the ich tank fallow for six weeks. If there are no fish in the ich tank when the on-the-fish stage of ich develops, the ich will simply die due to lack of hosts. Once the ich fish have been successfully treated, which, in some cases may take longer than 6 weeks if treatment proceedures have not been followed properly, there should not be a recurrence of ich in the used-to-be ich tank. That only holds true, however, if ich is not reintroduced in the tank at some point.

Also from what I read, stress in and of itself will not cause ich if ich is not present in the tank. Some people say their fish have developed ich after a long period of time in their tanks, yet no new fish have been added. Well, ime, something MUST have been added to the tank to introduce the ich. It could be some rock, LS, a coral or frag, or ANYTHING ELSE that came from a tank where ich was present but may not have been noticed.

All that said, I will be setting up my 20g as a Qtank for any new fish I plan for my upgraded tanks. Choice of treatment will by hyposalinity should ich be a problem. If my fish develp velvet, I will use copper to treat as hyposalinity does not have any effect on velvet.

[Delphinus]

Originally Posted by Beverly

Ich will drop off a fish in a week whether or not you do anything to your tank. The on-the-fish stage of ich lasts only about a week.

I was really only offering my experiences in a "for what it's worth" perspective, nothing more. There was a little bit of ick on a fish, I found something that I suspected was a stressor, I thus removed that stressor and things seemed to improve. The spots did not come back. Take it for what it's worth, an idle comment from the peanut gallery.

my guess is that the garlic makes the fish reek of garlic and the ich will not attach to the stinky fish.

I suppose that's one guess... I would have guessed something along the lines of garlic being an antioxidant, perhaps some kind of immuno-booster (if there is such a thing), or perhaps even as simple as "garlic'ed food smells better" and a fish that eats "more" as opposed to eats "less" stands a better chance of getting its strength up and fighting off nasties on its own. But those are just my guesses.

But, I would guess that for a really bad ick outbreak, feeding garlic laced food is a bit optimistic, all by itself.