I'm an Idiot

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by MarkoD

It doesn't matter what it is. It's the method of transmission.

Air is to humans as water is to fish.

Virus is to humans as parasite is to fish.

If a deadly virus is in the air all humans around it will be effected.

If a parasite is in the water all fish should be effected.

But they're not, because healthy fish can resist and fight the effects of ich

A parasite is a living organism. They need a host to feed off of in order to replicate.

A virus is not considered to be living therefore it does not need its host for "food". Rather it needs a specific host cell to replicate. It attacks the cell itself. Both Lytic and Lysogenic Viruses destroy the host cells in order to reproduce.

Parasites are more easily dealt with via medication if the parasite type is known. There are very few medications for viruses. Virus defense is generally vaccines which usually contain the dead virus' protein coat (immune system responds to this) creating antibodies to deal with that specific virus. Once your immune system creates these antibodies, it can fight off future infection before it makes you sick.

The above method of vaccination can work for parasites but it is not used much anymore. In the case of ich, there is even a theory (I stress theory) that fish can become "immune" to ich after fighting it off. I'd believe this more if we were talking a virus but to some degree it may be true. "From my experience" does not make something fact, just one observation in an uncontrolled environment.

Bottom line, of course a stressed fish is more likely to have a compromised immune system in which viruses, bacteria and parasites will be more successful in attacking and making your fish sick but saying a "healthy" non stressed fish will not get a parasite even if a lot of the parasite is introduced to a closed system is absurd. I'd like to know how the stress level of these fish is being measured anyways. I doubt many fish in our aquariums are NOT stressed to some degree, it's actually quite amazing how well they can adapt and survive considering what they went through and continue to go through in our aquariums.

Anyway, now I'm contributing to this thread getting off track.

Sorry to hear about this Marie. One of my favorite fish over the years on Canreef...

[Casey8]

I feel so sorry for you, Marie. You and aquattro's tank got ich just one after the other, it's terrible. It looks like people got this problem around this time of a year and into the spring.

[marie]

Originally Posted by Casey8

I feel so sorry for you, Marie. You and aquattro's tank got ich just one after the other, it's terrible. It looks like people got this problem around this time of a year and into the spring.

Actually Casey8, Aquattro's fish has Marine Velvet...... much more serious problem then Ich. Ich really is like fleas and at least in my mind, not usually fatal unless there are other things going on to weaken the fish

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Think of it this way. Marko lives on the planet. Venomous snakes live on the planet. Marko can probably avoid these snakes for most of his life, just going about his business. But...should we lock Marko in the bathroom, and then dump a bucket of venomous snakes in with him, well, Marko's gonna be dead.

Oh this is classic!

Also true...Can't compare a closed system to the ocean.

[George]

It's true that some fish won't be dead because of ich infection. But that doesn't mean we are not going to do anything to prevent the infection. Ich can be eliminated from a tank if you know its life cycle. A fish can have ich and survive this time, but maybe not next time.
And I don't buy the theory that a fish can have immune to ich. Ich is not a virus or bacteria. it's a parasite and it can attach to anything it get in contact with.

[MarkoD]

Originally Posted by George

It's true that some fish won't be dead because of ich infection. But that doesn't mean we are not going to do anything to prevent the infection. Ich can be eliminated from a tank if you know its life cycle. A fish can have ich and survive this time, but maybe not next time.
And I don't buy the theory that a fish can have immune to ich. Ich is not a virus or bacteria. it's a parasite and it can attach to anything it get in contact with.

A healthy fish has a slim coat over its scales and in its gills. Which keeps ich from attaching itself.

Stressed fish lose the slim coat and are more Likely to be effected by ich

[daniella3d]

wow...can't beleive I am reading this!

In the ocean the ick kyst are getting dispersed all over the currents and rarely they will be able to remain on a fish for very long because they get wiped away as soon as they detatch from the fish so not large scale infection can take place. However in the aquarium where the fish are so confined it is very easy for the ick to find the same fish over and over again until that poor fish is covered.

So yeah...if you dumped a bucket full of ick into a tank you would infect all of the fish in there. Has nothing to do with healthy or not healthy fish...it is a parasite and it will parasite.

Also you say you saw fish survive ick without treatment...fine....except have you ever seen fish survive marine velvet without treatment? now they are both parasites and the only reason that some fish manage to fight off ick is that it is not as nasty parasites. It's not only due to the fish fighting it off, it also has to do with the fact that ick is not such a deadly parasite as some others. If your theory about healthy fish fighting off disease would be true, then quite a bit of fish would survive velvet infestation, but that's simply not true. I guess that according to your theory, it means that a lot of fish are not heatly or they would not need medication to fight off marine velvet.

Originally Posted by MarkoD

Ich is all over the place in the ocean. If it was to be killing healthy fish, they'd all be dead

Just like healthy people with normal immune systems don't die from the common cold

[MarkoD]

Can you explain why one fish will get ich. And it will get worse and worse as the parasite multiplies. But all the other fish in the tank are not effected?

Originally Posted by daniella3d

wow...can't beleive I am reading this!

In the ocean the ick kyst are getting dispersed all over the currents and rarely they will be able to remain on a fish for very long because they get wiped away as soon as they detatch from the fish so not large scale infection can take place. However in the aquarium where the fish are so confined it is very easy for the ick to find the same fish over and over again until that poor fish is covered.

So yeah...if you dumped a bucket full of ick into a tank you would infect all of the fish in there. Has nothing to do with healthy or not healthy fish...it is a parasite and it will parasite.

Also you say you saw fish survive ick without treatment...fine....except have you ever seen fish survive marine velvet without treatment? now they are both parasites and the only reason that some fish manage to fight off ick is that it is not as nasty parasites. It's not only due to the fish fighting it off, it also has to do with the fact that ick is not such a deadly parasite as some others. If your theory about healthy fish fighting off disease would be true, then quite a bit of fish would survive velvet infestation, but that's simply not true. I guess that according to your theory, it means that a lot of fish are not heatly or they would not need medication to fight off marine velvet.

[jorjef]

Originally Posted by MarkoD

Can you explain why one fish will get ich. And it will get worse and worse as the parasite multiplies. But all the other fish in the tank are not effected?

Their super fast ninja like reflexes allows them to continually dodge the onslaught of the relentless evil doers called "The Ich" ... Unno just really having some fun here.... please continue.

[daniella3d]

yes maybe...are you sure it's ick? have you id it under a microscope?

Might be just some skin irritation/pimples or a skin reaction to something.

What you describe is rare though and not representative of ich infestation.

With ich, it seem that there is different level of infection and it come be quite mild at the beginning only to become plague proportion and kill every fish at some point. Sometime it's just the opposite and it start big and become less infective after a while and only a few bits of it show up here and there.

It is very hard to predict how "virulent" an infestation of ich will turn out. I guess there are a lot of influencing factors playing a role in each situation.

Originally Posted by MarkoD

Can you explain why one fish will get ich. And it will get worse and worse as the parasite multiplies. But all the other fish in the tank are not effected?