how many times a hour should the water go through the sump?

[banditpowdercoat]

Ya, my 150g with a 300g sump would be strange LOL

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Half the problem now seems to be everyone going big display tanks and small sumps. Back when sumps were 1st introduced they were always as big or bigger than the display. Now I am seeing 75 gallons with 20 gallon sumps, which is much too small.

I think a lot of people get caught up in the challenge of fitting as much equipment as possible in a small footprint. If you have the space, always go for as much system volume as you can fit. You can pick up 500 gallon water tanks for a lot less money than the equipment it would take to give you the same water quality. Even daisy chaining a bunch of 50 gallon plastic drums and keeping them in a cool place works well as the flow rate doesn't need to be very fast... oh here we go again

[mr.wilson]

Mike: Use a perforated nylon intake strainer on a closed loop. I used to use a 1/2 HP (3600 GPH) pump on a canister filter for 25 gallon tanks of small neons and they could comfortably swim right up to the intake or return when I used a perforated nylon strainer. An anemone could live on one while it draws in 3600 GPH. http://www.industrialnetting.com/filtration_tubes.html

Bandit: Single pass skimmers will work for a FIFO system because most of them use Sicce or Laguna pumps that only move 500 GPH.

[MikeInToronto]

That's something to consider for next time. I don't trust CLs and prefer propeller pumps with the included mesh right now. But it's not like the flow through my sump is that great anyway, maybe 2-3x skimmer capacity.

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by MikeInToronto

That's something to consider for next time. I don't trust CLs and prefer propeller pumps with the included mesh right now. But it's not like the flow through my sump is that great anyway, maybe 2-3x skimmer capacity.

You didn't trust Bill Burnetts overflow system until you tried it and now realize it is the best thing since sliced bread, oh yea of little faith.

[MikeInToronto]

Originally Posted by Mr OM

You didn't trust Bill Burnetts overflow system until you tried it and now realize it is the best thing since sliced bread, oh yea of little faith.

Haha! But I followed it with blind faith anyway.

[banditpowdercoat]

Mr Wilson. If you were to use a single pass skimmer for a FIFO, how would you guarantee that the sump return pump equaled EXACTLY what the skimmer inlet pump was pushing? To be true FIFO, all the water from the tank drain needs to pass through the skimmer, just once. Then, the return pump pumps the skimmed water back to the tank. it would be next to impossible to match them exactly. Thats why a recirc would work better. A recirc doesnt care what goes into it for flow to make the bubbles etc. The slower the inlet flow, the longer the contact time the water has, because bubble production remains constant.

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

Mr Wilson. If you were to use a single pass skimmer for a FIFO, how would you guarantee that the sump return pump equaled EXACTLY what the skimmer inlet pump was pushing? To be true FIFO, all the water from the tank drain needs to pass through the skimmer, just once. Then, the return pump pumps the skimmed water back to the tank. it would be next to impossible to match them exactly. Thats why a recirc would work better. A recirc doesnt care what goes into it for flow to make the bubbles etc. The slower the inlet flow, the longer the contact time the water has, because bubble production remains constant.

It doesn't have to exactly matched. As I stated in the example above...

If the return pump is too strong, the extra water the skimmer can't handle will bypass the skimmer and go over the glass partition to the second zone. If the return pump is too weak, the extra water processed by the protein skimmer will overflow backwards over the glass partition back into the on deck circle for the skimmer. Both scenarios are less than perfect but what is

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

It doesn't have to exactly matched. As I stated in the example above...

If the return pump is too strong, the extra water the skimmer can't handle will bypass the skimmer and go over the glass partition to the second zone. If the return pump is too weak, the extra water processed by the protein skimmer will overflow backwards over the glass partition back into the on deck circle for the skimmer. Both scenarios are less than perfect but what is

Then by your own words, is NOT a FIFO. can not have extra, or recirculating water for a FIFO style sump

For a FIFO, All water that enters sump, needs to pass through the skimmer ONCE, then on through the rest of the system ONCE, then back to tank. NO bypass, and no water recircing in loops. Everything is in series.

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by banditpowdercoat

Then by your own words, is NOT a FIFO. can not have extra, or recirculating water for a FIFO style sump

For a FIFO, All water that enters sump, needs to pass through the skimmer ONCE, then on through the rest of the system ONCE, then back to tank. NO bypass, and no water recircing in loops. Everything is in series.

I agree that the most efficient skimmer feeding system is a direct feed from the display drain, but most protein skimmers are built by manufacturers to cut production costs, so they use a one pump does all system.

If you are directly feeding a recirculating skimmer from a drain, you should always have an emergency bypass T or Y in the event that the skimmer clogs, can't keep up with the sump return pump, or a surge of water in the tank while you are servicing it. In the event that any water takes the T or Y, the system is no longer FIFO or 100% efficient as MrOm would say

With a little valve tweaking you can get close enough to a perfect match with the sump & skimmer pumps to call it "efficient". The good thing about directing the skimmer effluent over a glass partition and trying to match the pump outputs is if you don't get a perfect match, the system is se;f regulating, in that you don't have a skimmer zone that runs dry when the skimmer pump outcompetes, or an overflowing skimmer if the return pump outcompetes.