LED Patents - Action Needed!

[StirCrazy]

the biggest problem is finding the stuff for a reasonable price. for example it is going to cost me about 600 bucks give or take to build the set up for my 30 gal tank, Ron is about 1200 for his tank.

money waise for me this is still not back concidering two 250 watt MH over the same tank would cost about 600 to get going also. the differance is I should get about 10 years of use from my system with no more money added. two MH on a 30 gal will definatly need a chiller, so there is another 600 bucks, then two bulbs a year for 10 years is another 2K. and if the calculations are right I will have over 400 PAR on the bottom of my tank wich is about inline with 250 watt DE MH. so I will have the same par output but only consume 200 watts of power instead of 500. and no heat issues as all the heat is disapated through the heat sink up into the air. then to top it all off I will be able to dim each color seperatly so I can get any color temp I want for the tank, and if I spend another couple hundred bucks I can put togeather a digital controler to slowly fade in the colors to different degrees at different times of the day and fade out again at sunset. since I will be running two white controlers and two blue, if I gwet some new frags, I can drop the intensity on one side of the tank where the new corals are and slowly bring it back up over a week or so to get the frags used to the light. features you just cant buy in systems that are out there right now.

Like I said the company could sue, but would they, no.. like I said and Ron said the cost is against it. it would be like metalica sueing the 20K people that downloaded there music, they wouldn't have sued 50 people, but if there are enough people to make the lawsuit worth itin the end then ya.

the reason we want the patent squashed is to encourage compatition. this would bring the overall cost of LEDs down making it cheeper to build. also it would allow bigger lighting companies the creat system. for instance if PFO would have been entering a market at the same time as 4 other lighting companies with the solaris, you can bet it would have been about 500 to 1K cheeper. Also it would open the doors for compinies to produce retrofit kits. right now the market is limited to people who can figure out resisters, electronic soldering, drilling and tapping, and you have to source the parts from about 4 different places.. heatsink from one, led's and drivers from another.. thermal paste from another, ect. So LEDs right now are only feasable to a slice of the reefing comunity than has the knowlage and skill sets to build them.

[Ron99]

The issue is that this patent is going to harm the growth of LED lighting and innovation. Most small aquarium lighting companies will not want to pay royalties to Orbitec and it's a dodgy patent in many people's opinion. If Orbitec gets the continuation allowed they will be able to control all aquarium LED lighting except for moonlights. I don't think that will be a good thing for the hobby.

it is pretty well established now that LEDs are a viable alternative to other types of light. i don't have time to hunt for lots of information but here's two quick links that show what some people are seeing with LEDs:

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/s...d.php?t=321387

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1639666

And yes, the intensity is there. Don't try to look directly into a high power LED. Way bright. Lot's of PAR readings too and people bleaching and and killing corals with LEDs out there.

I am planning on starting my 48" LED array build soon so you will all see what it does on my 75 gallon mixed reef.

[Red Coral Aquariums]

Originally Posted by Ron99

The issue is that this patent is going to harm the growth of LED lighting and innovation. Most small aquarium lighting companies will not want to pay royalties to Orbitec and it's a dodgy patent in many people's opinion. If Orbitec gets the continuation allowed they will be able to control all aquarium LED lighting except for moonlights. I don't think that will be a good thing for the hobby.

One simple sticker on your proposed LED fixture would solve the whole patent issue.

" NOT FOR AQUARIUM USE"

Kevin

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Red Coral Aquariums

One simple sticker on your proposed LED fixture would solve the whole patent issue.

" NOT FOR AQUARIUM USE"

Kevin

ahh great, when you going to start selling the Kevin?

Steve

[naesco]

Originally Posted by sphelps

So what's the issue? Are you looking to build and market LED fixtures and retro fits? If not I would let the people that want to worry about that. I assure you there is always a way around patents like this, monopolies only last so long. This type of thing happens all the time but competition always finds a way if there is potential market share available.

However I don't see much potential. I have never seen an LED system alone support an average size tank with mostly SPS corals. You could with the same reasoning stack a ton of NO florescence over one tank in hopes of it meeting the demands but it simply won't work.
I don't believe the intensity is there, simple as that. Yes they are efficient and very cool with all the programing options but that's it. The cost is not why these lights are not popular, if they worked as well as you say then more people would use them but unfortunately no one has really proven these to work as suggested. I offer the same challenge to you, very simple just present a tank that proves me wrong.

If they did work as well as the alternative I for one would use them, I love efficiency but it still needs to work. I spend plenty of money on good equipment that works well and is efficient.

I see a fantastic potential for LED lighting. Many reefers are tired of the static though beautiful SPS tanks and are looking to LPS coral which offer the opportunity to view florescense that LED deep blue lighting provides. The difference is colour is shocking.
The newer LED systems provide this opportunity. You can focus light beams, programme different lighting and dim which is not available on dated MH lighting.
I would encourage the lighting experts on this board to experiment with DIY and bought systems.
I am defineately not knowledgeable of the details of LED but IMO LED is the future.
Wayne

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by naesco

I see a fantastic potential for LED lighting. Many reefers are tired of the static though beautiful SPS tanks and are looking to LPS coral which offer the opportunity to view florescense that LED deep blue lighting provides. The difference is colour is shocking.
The newer LED systems provide this opportunity. You can focus light beams, programme different lighting and dim which is not available on dated MH lighting.
I would encourage the lighting experts on this board to experiment with DIY and bought systems.
I am defineately not knowledgeable of the details of LED but IMO LED is the future.
Wayne

Yes I've seen some nice thanks that use LEDs as supplemental to halides and/or T5s. LEDs can create the spotlight effect which is very nice. I agree and see potential as supplemental but not so much on their own. I see more potential in the plasma light than LED, the plasma is 1000x smaller and more efficient. The other problem is LEDs is limited spectrum.

[banditpowdercoat]

Ya, who's gona patent Plasma lighting for Aquarium use????!!!!!!!!!

[sphelps]

As far as the patent issue if concerned I'm pretty sure you could still build and market another LED fixture pretty easily. But in order to do so you'll have to have some obvious difference and fork out the money to patent your own fixture. The reason PFO lost so badly is they didn't have a patent and the other company just so happened to have one that described the solaris quite nicely. This is a risk you take if you're going to sell and market a new new idea without a patent, it's also why you see patent pending around more than actual patents. The trick is to fill out the initial paper work for a patent but never complete the process, that way if someone else comes into the market you can complete your patent and because your initial paper work was in first you'll win.

Really I don't think the patent is the issue stopping more competition. First off the patent applies only to the US and yet I don't see any large advances from other countries like Europe or even China. The problem is this lighting source is too expensive, too complicated, not as efficient as people think, and not as effective as people think. It's a gimmick product more than anything and it really can't compete with the leaders in the market, T5s and MHs.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Yes I've seen some nice thanks that use LEDs as supplemental to halides and/or T5s. LEDs can create the spotlight effect which is very nice. I agree and see potential as supplemental but not so much on their own. I see more potential in the plasma light than LED, the plasma is 1000x smaller and more efficient. The other problem is LEDs is limited spectrum.

You may be right on the plasma.
The the point I was trying to make was that with LED is available now and Plasma technology is around the corner it would not be a good move to invest in expensive MH lighting at this time. It would be much better to invest in a cheap T-5 option.

MHs are expensive, have a huge demand for electricity, create tremendous heat which has to be dealt with chillers or noisy supplementary fan additions, require frequent bulb replacement, cannot be programmed to dim and require supplemental lighting.

Would anyone by an analog TV today? Would anyone buy an ordinary LCD TV today when the 3D technology is available for sale this summer?

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Yes I've seen some nice thanks that use LEDs as supplemental to halides and/or T5s. LEDs can create the spotlight effect which is very nice. I agree and see potential as supplemental but not so much on their own. I see more potential in the plasma light than LED, the plasma is 1000x smaller and more efficient. The other problem is LEDs is limited spectrum.

ya and the plasma is a ugly color, not adjustable, expensive as heck, and has been comming soon for 6 years.. and it isn't realy smaller, it is big and bulky due to the magnet design, housing, ect.. looks ugly over a tank. I was all excited about the plasma 6 years ago when it was first showen for fishtanks, but since then it has been all talk.

LEDs may be overall a larger surface area but you can do them 1.5" thick if you want. so it is hardly noticable over a tank.

man are you ever negitive to some things. somepeople grow SPS under T5's LEDs blow them out of the water, you said there are not a lot of high light corals in the tanks, but I see a tone of SPS in them.. as for spotting, if you space them right there is no spotting, even if you have the fixture 1" above the water and for colors, you can make them any color you want.. you like 10K, maby 14, maybe 20, heck you want 12.3K the color is adjustable to anything between the color of the white wich is usaly abut 8K to the color of the royal blue which is abut 24K. you get the shimmer effect of the MH, with the total coverage of the T5, and can be dimmed anywhere from 0 to 100% instead of a couple steps like lights we are using now. here is a write up/review. now he is talking about a LED board that replaces MH lights, the differance between what he is talking about and what we are is that we will get that same intensity over the whole tank instead of a just a footprint simular to a mh pendant. to do these we use more led and yes it costas a bit more, but like I said.. I can build a setup that will replace two MH bulbs for about the same money as it costs to go buy two MH pendant setups.

"Aquarium LED lighting must be differentiated in two different categories:
1. Very low power aquarium LED light
2. High power aquarium LED light
1. Very low power LED lighting
These lighting systems have become very popular now and are easily obtained. The major benefits are that they only use very little power so the electricity cost is close to zero and they increase the visible attractiveness of your reef.
With the low power Aquarium LED light it is easy to prolong the light step down process by switching them on just before the main lights turn off. This light is very weak and therefore doesn t disturb the fish or corals, and many aquarists also use them to add the moonlight effect on the corals which enhances coral spawning.
When the main lights are switched off, the aquarium LED light gives a flickering moonlight effect to the reef tank. It does look lovely when the beams of weak LED light dive through the water and ripple over the rock and coral formations.
2. High power aquarium LED light
I have changed my aquarium light around 2 years ago and have found out that there are some great benefits and advantages compared to my previous metal halides. I will try in this post not to become too technical so that also novice aquarists will understand the benefits of this fish tank light system.
High power aquarium LED light systems come in 250 Watt and 400 Watt arrangements, which are the most popular for reef aquariums. The set up is similar to the metal halides in a rectangular box above the aquarium.
Producing only about half the heat of the common metal halides, they can be installed much closer to the water surface and don t require a chiller anymore, which reduced my electricity bill.
Due to a combination of white and blue LED s, the lighting color is very similar to that of the fluorescent tubes, with a Kelvin rating of about 20.000 so that they equal metal halides in color output.
The by far biggest benefit of the LED s is their endurance. They will produce the same light quality for around 50.000 hours which equals 11 years if the LED s run for12 hours a day. That is more than 5 times the life span of metal halides bulbs and 11 times of the fluorescent tubes.
Aquarium LED light can be dimmed from maximum output to zero output making them better adjustable for any aquarium needs, while hardly any UV radiation comes from them.
The aquarium light offered by LED s produces the same attractive glitter lines that make your reef appear more natural than that produced by the metal halides.
Concerning the aquarium light there is in my personal opinion not a single disadvantage using aquarium LED light over the common lighting methods like metal halide bulbs or fluorescent light tubes.
However, the LED technique is still new and therefore the initial cost of a complete aquarium LED light system is higher. But in the long run you will save money on buying a chiller and paying this chillers power usage. Please also don t forget that common lighting systems have to be replaced every year or two which calculated over a 11 year period also accumulates to a significant cost. This means that you will have less maintenance work on your fish tank light compared to continuous bulb changing.
The final big plus is that with the aquarium LED light you can easier adjust the simulation of a natural reef which will significantly increase the success rate in growing corals yourself."


Steve