Help Getting Started

[serratus]

Just getting started for the first time for a reef aquarium.

So far I just have a 50gal tank and TEK 36" 6-bulb T5HO lights.
I was looking on ebay for filters/heaters etc and found these. Are these any good?

Fluval 405
Penn Plax Cascade Submersible Aquarium Heater 300 watt
WORK-HORSE Aquarium Powerhead 250 GPH

What else would I be needing? It seems the references on these forums highly recommend a protein skimmer and claim that a good skimmer it is more important than a good filter. Local marine aquarium specialists seems to say that protein skimmer is not really needed.

Planning to make my aquarium look like this after a year or two with similar inhabitants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmYb_...aynext_from=PL

BTW, I don't have enough room to do a sump setup.

[xtreme]

Unless you plan on cleaning your canister filter on a regular basis (like at least weekly) it will probably end up doing more harm than good. Canister filters usually aren't recommended for a reef tank. As for powerheads, you might want to look into a couple koralias or at least something a little more powerful than 250gph. You would need like 5 -10 of those wokrhorses to create enough flow. Aim for at least 20x turnover in your display tank.

[serratus]

Originally Posted by xtreme

Unless you plan on cleaning your canister filter on a regular basis (like at least weekly) it will probably end up doing more harm than good. Canister filters usually aren't recommended for a reef tank. As for powerheads, you might want to look into a couple koralias or at least something a little more powerful than 250gph. You would need like 5 -10 of those wokrhorses to create enough flow. Aim for at least 20x turnover in your display tank.

Once a week??? Will it get clogged that fast? Don't canister filters provide more surface area for nitrifying bacteria to live on?

[xtreme]

Its not that it will get clogged that fast, just that it will become a nitrate factory if not cleaned regularly. Live rock is what takes care of your biological filtration.

[xtreme]

Check out this thread to get an idea of what people are using for flow and how much is required.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...highlight=flow

[serratus]

It seems to be the trend on here to get away from mechanical filtration and just use live rocks and have tons of flow so that there is enough flow through all the cracks and holes of the live rock for good filtration. However, aren't there tons of people that have done it successfully with canister filters? I wish I had the room to put in a sump system so I can pack it with more live rock and sand for filtration but I just don't have the space for that and I was thinking the cannister filter would be my best option.

You mentioned it would be a nitrate factory. Isn't that what you want? You want it to convert ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate right?

I apologize for being so new at this and asking some stupid questions. I've only done weeks of reading but no hands on experience so please point out any mistakes in thinking I have. I'm sure I have plenty.

[chandigz]

Questions are good. The only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask. Most of the people here "have been there, done that" and are giving advice from actual experience and know what works and what doesn't. What sort of worked 5-10 years ago is outdated and better ways have been created. Some things are the same with fresh and salt, some are not. You have to try to forget what you do with f/w and open your eyes to a new way of thinking. I have to agree with everyone else, forget the canister filter and use a skimmer. The only people who sometimes use only a canister filter instead of a skimmer are people with fish only tanks. The live rock will take care of your biological filtration. It also acts a source of denitrification(breakdown of nitrate into nitrogen gas by anerobic bacteria) . The protein skimmer is used to remove organic wastes from the water before it has a chance to turn into nitrate. One of Your goals in keeping a reef tank is to have a non existant nitrate level. Nitrate will cause major algae problems and interfear with coral growth and survival. Best peice of advise I can give you is take it slow, research(make sure its current)/ask questions, and do it right, it will cost you less in the long run and save a lot of headaches.

[c_scherer123]

Not much SW experience (yet...), but I have spent many hours researching and lurking around this and other forums.

I would skip the canister, and use the money towards a good skimmer (which removes the waste before it enters the nitrification cycle). Do LOTS of research on the skimmer before buying so you don't have to replace the skimmer.

Depending on stocking I would go with a pair of koralia 3's or 4's. SPS like really high turbulence, while mushrooms and other softies prefer slower flow.

With that lighting I would go more LPS and some deeper water SPS.

I would use two smaller heaters, in case one heater breaks the other can pick up the slack until you notice.

It is easier to design the tank around what you are planning to stock. That is how I am planning my 90g - I knew which fish and corals I wanted, and I narrowed it down to those that could coexist in the same area without (hopefully) any problems arising. After that, it is relatively easy to figure out what lighting the corals need, what amount of flow is suitable, and so on. I drew a rough sketch of what I wanted the rockwork to look like, which corals go where, where to place powerheads to direct flow where it is most needed, and so on. The sketch greatly helped me plan and pulled all the pieces together for me.

[serratus]

Wow, it seems you guys are unanimous about not using a mechanical filter and going for a good protein skimmer.

I'm starting to learn that the nitrates are bad too and live rock filters that out. Now, here is where I am a bit confused and please point out if any of what I am saying is wrong: Live Rock as well as a cannister filter have bacteria that grows in them that converts ammonia into nitrite and then from nitrite to nitrate. So from what you are saying, is there a different bacteria that grows ONLY in the live rock that converts nitrate into nitrogen gas? These guys don't live in the cannister filter?

Second confusing point, whether you have a cannister filter or not, the amount of ammonia produced by the live stock will be the same which means the amount of available ammonia that gets converted into nitrite is the same. In turn, this means that cannister filter or not, the amount of nitrite available to convert into nitrate is the same. So how does the cannister filter INCREASE the nitrate levels? Wouldn't that be the same irregardless of cannister filter or not?

I don't mean to sound like I am arguing with you. I am not. It's just that I am confused and would like to find out why. It seems that all of you agree that cannister filters INCREASE nitrate levels so there must be some error in my thinking and that's why I am confused.

[Black Phantom]

Here's one vote "for" the cannister filter. I've run one on my 45 for years with no problems. But as everyone here has said, you have to keep it clean. It's the build up of detrius in the foam filter that causes the problem. I clean mine monthly with a new filter (washed) and I also run a bit of carbon in a bag as well. I did run live rock in there but I stopped as the detrius buildup on it was just as bad as the foam and much harder to clean.
Go ahead and run a cannister, but like the rest of your system you have to take care of it.