which shop in calgary is the best in service??

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by reefman90

Rasta. Thankyou for speaking your mind.

Yer welcome

Originally Posted by reefman90

I have been reading the past boards the last couple days and have come to realize that you have perhaps made it difficult for one to perhaps comment from a store as there have been many personal attacks on stores and it has even got into namecalling. I think that there are many good people at many of the stores...most have at least one, and what I was trying to say is that I feel you cannot complain about the service they have provided withouit first testing their knowlege...


At every store I have ever worked at, there has been training programs to a greater or lesser extent. At most, employees are encouraged to take books home and learn from reading. Training is expensive for a hobby that has/requires so much knowlege. All the stores have a pretty much "If you dont know ASK" policy with their fish employees.

The name calling is unfortunate and personally I dont agree with it on a public board ... however having said that the store must be held accountable for bad or misleading information ... most of this is from frustration at not having a LFS that is trustworthy. I have also found that the so-called expert is always too busy doing other things and nowhere to be found when needed.

It would be refreshing to believe that < training > to be true ... however the examples here indicate that although it is encouraged it may not be priority ... have any of the stores you worked for done " product knowledge " contests ? ... a sure fire way to encourage employee participation is reward and recognition ... a placque on the wall would also let the customers know who really knows their stuff ... Saturday afternoon animal husbandry techniques or fish/coral/invert identification would be a great way to bring young and old alike into this hobby as a mentoring program ... and on and on ... point is that stores need to do more to promote the hobby they support

Originally Posted by reefman90

I think that it has been made hard for a store to come on this board as to some of the things that have been said. Yes We still sell Seahorses, and Sea apples...but people ask for them, and despite warnings, they still want them. If we dont bring 'em in someone down the street will and they will get the customers business. One thing I have learned is that it is very very difficult to be a customers best friend and to still have them be a customer. Do you guys try to get to know anyone at the petstores? The way you guys seem to talk is that they are not worth knowing
When I worked at a shop, I had many people that would want your schedule so they could come in to see you, and only you...as you develop a personal relationship with them.

Now a entrepreneur type like yourself might see this as a opportunity to build a relationship with a board like this would be a goldmine dont you think ? ... the fact that ALL the stores in this town have been guilty of some/all that has been said so far does not preclude them from making a effort to change

Originally Posted by reefman90

A very difficult thing to balance (customer friend).
Thankyou

Not that difficult if you think about it ... if a fish store tells you no with a valid explanation as to why a particular animal would not be a good choice ( based on their knowledge of what you have / how much experience etc ) then you have to respect their ethics for the hobby and certainly go back to them in the future

Originally Posted by reefman90

PS Rasta = detective rasta

[reefman90]

Rasta,

Yes, most of the stores attempt at teaching product knowlege runs on a reward system. There are rewards for knowlege, length of time and sales at most stores. The interesting part is...that at almost every store...depending on the store, the reward has been a book, or a particularly large discount on one item or another. Now if that is not encouraging product knowlege I really do not know what is. I have seen stores put on seminars, have weekly meetings where new products are reviewed.


On another note..."so called expert". I dont think I ever called anyone an expert. There are very few people in this hobby that I would EVER call an expert as there is just so much to know. Yes, the most knowlegeble people are usually the ones who are busy. However, have you guys tried to develop a relationship with this so-called "expert". I think that taht is one of the most important things. its a hobby, think of lots of hobbys...you dont take your car to get detailed just anywhere, or you dont buy your RC car from someone who doesn't know what motor to putin it.You need to deveop that relationship. There are however a hell of a lot of people who are self proclaimed experts in this hobby. Both hobbyists and workers and you have to watch out for these people. They can talk the talk but can they walk the walk...

THERE IS JUST SO MUCH TO KNOW!

When I worked at a store, I can remember certain customers, ones tht were more on the friend side of the equation, coming in, after they have proved me wrong in something that I made sure I was not giving them a definant answer (grammar? my high school english teacher is rolling over in her grave). Anywyas,, they would come in to tell me I was wrong. It is good to learn together, and I have learned many things over the years from customers.

Lastly, some customers do not take no for an answer, whther you have a great explanation or not, and they will just buy it from the guy down the street. The reason someone opens a business is to make money. The reason people open a business catering to a hobby is (usually) because they enjoy that sort of thing. So next time you are in your LFS, why dont you ask an employee what they have at home ( they often, like customers love to talk about their own creatures, seriously), find out what they are into, and maybe ask them about an experience they have had with a particular thing( I know I was the first to tell people I could not keep a damn carnation alive).


It is agoldmine...but after reading some of the past posts, I think it is one that is surrounded by a mine-field, and a bunch of barb-wire...

Thanks again

PS it appears as though I myself have lied. . . 3 posts in under 24 hours...

[Quinn]

I think it's good that this thread hasn't become an all-out flame war. It's come close, but looks like everyone is staying pretty calm. Three cheers for Canreef, you know what happens when the big message boards get onto the topic of LFS' (actually one of the greatest things about Canreef, other than that it's local people, is that most of us seem to really think before we answer, RC and RDO are just a lot of hot air most of the time).

Reefman90, can you tell us what LFS you work at? Maybe we can ask for you by name next time we're in. You can show us just what your store is doing to improve the reputation of Calgary LFS'.

There is definently a lot to know in this hobby. And I agree that no one will ever know everything. My problem is, LFS employees don't even seem to know the basics half the time. To prove my point, I'm tempted to start visiting LFS' and asking questions I know the answers to, just to see what the employees say. You can call me mystery shopper.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by reefman90

Rasta,

Yes, most of the stores attempt at teaching product knowlege runs on a reward system. There are rewards for knowlege, length of time and sales at most stores. The interesting part is...that at almost every store...depending on the store, the reward has been a book, or a particularly large discount on one item or another. Now if that is not encouraging product knowlege I really do not know what is. I have seen stores put on seminars, have weekly meetings where new products are reviewed....

I guess you have to look at it from the customers eyes and being that you are that well known apparently you wont see it from our perspective ... we also have no clue as to who won the " book " this week so then have to sift through employees to find one that knows his/her stuff < and then find out if they read the book > and then phone to book an appointment to discuss what livestock they have that would be compatable in my tank ... one store was kind enough to offer a notification program whenever new stock came in but when asked if they could order specifically what I wanted they fell short on extending that courtesy and said they get what they get ...

I personally have not seen any info or advertizing regarding seminars < shark feeding frenzy excluded > and since everyone nowadays has at the minimum of a hotmail account if not more than a few email accounts then notification of seminars etc would be easy

Originally Posted by reefman90

There are however a hell of a lot of people who are self proclaimed experts in this hobby. Both hobbyists and workers and you have to watch out for these people. They can talk the talk but can they walk the walk...

Exactly ... a needle in a haystack ... so lets say you get lucky and find somebody that knows what they are talking about and the store they are working in has dead/dying fish constantly or outrageous prices on hardware ... what then ?

Originally Posted by reefman90

When I worked at a store, I can remember certain customers, ones that were more on the friend side of the equation, coming in, after they have proved me wrong in something that I made sure I was not giving them a definate answer (grammar? my high school english teacher is rolling over in her grave... fixed ). Anyways, they would come in to tell me I was wrong. It is good to learn together, and I have learned many things over the years from customers. ...

Good for you ... but I am afraid the majority of employees dont see it that way and wont go ask if they dont know ... and are still selling hippo tangs to newbies with 20G tanks

Originally Posted by reefman90

Lastly, some customers do not take no for an answer, whther you have a great explanation or not, and they will just buy it from the guy down the street. The reason someone opens a business is to make money. The reason people open a business catering to a hobby is (usually) because they enjoy that sort of thing. So next time you are in your LFS, why dont you ask an employee what they have at home ( they often, like customers love to talk about their own creatures, seriously), find out what they are into, and maybe ask them about an experience they have had with a particular thing( I know I was the first to tell people I could not keep a damn carnation alive)....

How much < % > of what you sell in the store irks your conscience when you tie the bag up and check it through ? ... how much of your livestock do you have control over when you place a order ? ...

Originally Posted by reefman90

It is a goldmine...but after reading some of the past posts, I think it is one that is surrounded by a mine-field, and a bunch of barb-wire

Thanks again..

As I said before ... all we need is ONE store to step up and be a shining example for the rest so that the bar can be raised ... if you really think that our local stores are top notch in all areas of reef keeping then you really ought to get out and take a look around and see what some stores in other cities are doing in this hobby

Originally Posted by reefman90

PS it appears as though I myself have lied. . . 3 posts in under 24 hours...

Dont worry we wont hold it against ya ... it was prolly not intentionally misdirected

Cheers

[reefman90]

Reefman90, can you tell us what LFS you work at? Maybe we can ask for you by name next time we're in. You can show us just what your store is doing to improve the reputation of Calgary LFS'.

Not as of yet, and maybe not at allmaybe I dont work at one anymore...maybe I will be at the next meeting....lol

guess you have to look at it from the customers eyes and being that you are that well known apparently you wont see it from our perspective

Just curious if you could kindly elaborate

How much < % > of what you sell in the store irks your conscience when you tie the bag up and check it through ? ... how much of your livestock do you have control over when you place a order ? ...

Just wanted to say that barely anything that goes through there, when I worked at a LFS Irks my mind...I would have to say that when I worked at a LFS that there are always a few questionable things...and there are always a few surprises...but you have to take into account who you are dealing with. KNow the person you are buying your fish from, do youir own research, through talking to employees, reading, and this board, and overall, what I am trying to get across, is to ask questions, guage responses, and perhaps even develop a criteria for your LFS employee to meet...

As to how much control....almost 100 %. But like I said, sometimes we are made to feel like we have to order moorshi idols, and seahorses, cause despite our warnings...these people want them. (your board helps steer people clear of that though.!

I have seen a few times however, a store trying a new supplier just for variety, and getting a whole shipment in dead...possibly cyanide...and that is something that is unavoidable...seriously...trying to offer the custiomer the lowest price and still stay in business is what we all try to do.

and take a look around and see what some stores in other cities are doing in this hobby

Just wanted to say that I have been to some of the online places...visiting their actual stores over the years...and it can be pretty dissapointing to see...however on a side note, I have never ordered online...from a consumer perspective that is. !

Have a nice evening

Reefman

[Delphinus]

Where are my manners! Welcome to Canreef, BTW.

I don't think anyone is really comparing the slate of LFS's to the slate of MO outfits. Yeah, a lot of them are probably disappointing to see for real. That's not really the issue. Any criticism I might level against a LFS myself personally is something I am equally apt to level against a MO supplier because I apply the same criteria to both categories. What constitutes a "positive customer experience" versus a "negative" one has nothing to do with whether I drove to the store itself, or whether something arrived on a plane or in the mail. There are MO outfits that has a spit-polish finish and others that seem plain amateurish in comparisons but neither one is immune to a purchase leaving a customer feeling he/she was serviced well, or not well, whatever the case may be.

I sitll stand by my own comments I made earlier about the customer needing to exercise common sense and good judgment. I think, however, that when one don't have the experience level yet to make those good decisions, that it is not an open invitation to surface some kind of predatory instinct and "go for the kill." Yes, business is in business to make money. But I think the onus has to be on the retailer, still, at some level, to ensure customer success is one their goals too. It is not in the vendors best interests to see a customer fail. Ok, so some customers don't listen, and you can't please everybody all the time and yadda yadda yadda. So there are no "100%" answers. But as far as "0% to 99%" goes, there is the implication that things can usually be made better, or made worse, and I think attitude can count for part of how much and in what direction.

[Buccaneer]

Hey Reefman ... here is a story of a guy at a LFS that had a customer from out of space ... maybe you can relate ?

This guy comes in and is telling me that he has mastered the art of hypnotizing reptiles.. I just humor the guy and listen to his non-sense for a bit. I thought it would be pretty comical to watch so I let him show me his skill. I had a tokay gecko (a real biter) that was as mean as they come. If you don't know about geckos they bite and won't let go until they are good and ready.. So this guy is going to hypnotize the gecko. I get the thing out and it is on a table looking at him, he then leans down and gets his face about 2 inches from the gecko and starts talking to it. Well guess what ??? The gecko launched itself forward and attached to his face !! I almsot fell of of the stool laughing, there were about 5 regulars in the store at the time and we were all in tears laughing so hard. So the guy is trying to be all cool and calm and says that this is just part of the process... Well after about 15 minutes of him standing around waiting for the thing to let go, his girlfriend comes over and starts trying to coax the devil gecko of her mans face while telling us that she is better at hypnotizing than her man is... So she gets her face about 2 inches from where the gecko is attached and starts talking to the gecko.... Guess what ???? The gecko lets go and jumps onto her face and bites onto her nose.. At that point I totally lost it and could hardly breathe.. The whole time she is standing there with this gecko attached to her face she is telling us that she is an expert.. Then to top it all off, they bought the stinkin gecko to take it home and train it to prove us wrong.... I can't remember ever laughing that hard since...

[saltcreep]

I have a can of gasoline and I'm not afraid to throw it on the fire ...just kidding.

Many times the LFS is compared to the MO operation. Even stores in one city are compared to stores in another. Neither is a fair comparison. Every store has it's own business structure, complete with different operating costs and supply chains. Yes they do have to make a profit to stay in business. One thing to keep in mind...Vancouver has the lowest prices in the hobby in North America!

I hear all too often from the LFS owner that they get tired of people entering the store and taking a great deal of their time asking questions and then going and buying wherever it is cheapest. It works both ways. Many people want the "expertise" and advise of the LFS but often don't want to pay for it. Yes I do agree...this "expertise" and advise is sadly lacking in many LFS.

[Canadian Man]

Originally Posted by saltcreep

I have a can of gasoline and I'm not afraid to throw it on the fire ...just kidding.

Many times the LFS is compared to the MO operation. Even stores in one city are compared to stores in another. Neither is a fair comparison. Every store has it's own business structure, complete with different operating costs and supply chains. Yes they do have to make a profit to stay in business. One thing to keep in mind...Vancouver has the lowest prices in the hobby in North America!

I hear all too often from the LFS owner that they get tired of people entering the store and taking a great deal of their time asking questions and then going and buying wherever it is cheapest. It works both ways. Many people want the "expertise" and advise of the LFS but often don't want to pay for it. Yes I do agree...this "expertise" and advise is sadly lacking in many LFS.

I see your point and I deal with this on a regular basis in my line of work. BUT ME, MYself...And...I Don't even talk to people in LFS anymore. WHY? Well because I have no need for their expertise because I rarely find any of that. It's seems that most of what they speak of is BS or outdated knowledge. Now I don't refer to all the LFS in Calgary but of the ones I have visited. The closest LFS to me Disgusts me every time I walk in. All the fish I have purchased from this store have survived and are doing great. Heck my last fish was purchased from there but.....I said as few words as possible and got asked as little as possible.

"Can I get that Naso tang please?"

"Sure, which one would you like?"

"The fat healthy one please! "

"Here you go"

Cashier asks
"Phone number please?"

"Thanks, see Ya"


Now I knew what I wanted in this case but I would have very much enjoyed hearing something along the lines of this for a conversation with the fish room guy.

"Can I get the Naso tang please?"

"Sure but first, what size of tank are you putting it in?"

" Well it's going in my 230g tank"

"That's great sir, I wanted to make sure the fish would have sufficient room as you probably already know that Naso tangs get very large and need large tanks!"


If I owned a fish store I can 100% guarantee ANYONE that my staff would volunteer this type of information. All my current staff (not in the fish industry) are trained to ASSUME that the customer doesn't know specifics that he/she needs to know. I have Lost many "spur of the moment" sales because I was HONEST with my customers and Validated their purchase with my shop. These customers almost always return to buy the "product they truly needed" and do it over and over again because they now respect that we are looking out for their wants and needs.

PHEW. This thread drains my energy reading it.

[saltcreep]

CM...it tires me out too, but don't forget it works both ways. You may not need the expertise but the vast majority of the people out there do (like many LFS owners or employees themselves). Take a look at the thread on RC that mirrors this one. Most people there seem to be offended that an employee asks what environment they are putting their purchase into. Obviously some people are above the "inquisition" (not intended for you).

All consumers wants and needs are very different. It's extremely hard to cater to every customer, no matter what industry. From my point of view, and it has been exressed clearly on this board and others, price is a major factor in a purchase. The attitudes of too many are that they will buy it where it is cheapest, with regard of service or quality.