Raw Pet Food

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by marie

If you want to be believed then be very careful about making statements like this

I think this whole topic has to avoid "statements", as most of it is really just a pet owners preference.
Yes, many dogs that eat raw live longer, more active lives than kibble counterparts, but I'm sure there are many that don't. Diet is not the only factor in long healthy lives.
Also "stating" that veggies are important is simply an opinion. My opinion is that this isn't true, although feeding veggies probably isn't bad, so if you feel better feeding them, no harm done.
Some people insist that bones are whole, while others grind them up. To me, grinding removes one of the important benefits of bones. But again, it's purely preference.
Both sides of any portion of these issues has it's proponents and opponents.
Read all you can, talk to a variety of people that feed raw and then form your own opinion. The myths link I posted has a lot of good info, and disspells a lot of the heresay on this topic, although again, it's one websites' opinion.
Since most vets think feeding dogs raw is crazy, they are not a good source of info. As mentioned elsewhere, a lot of vets get their (minimal) training from the pet food suppliers, making it rather biased.
Canids have been eating raw for a lot of years before medi-cal was invented, and the species as a whole is doing pretty good, so there has to be something to the whole idea!

[Diana]

Yah they have been eating our table scraps for 10,000 years!

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Also "stating" that veggies are important is simply an opinion. My opinion is that this isn't true, although feeding veggies probably isn't bad, so if you feel better feeding them, no harm done.

I get this from a page I found on the differances between dogs and cats, even goes to say dogs doi have dual purpos teeth, although not as all purpose as ours, they are designed to cut grasses and other veggies, where the cats are designed for one purpose.. to hold and tear. also they do talk about the differances in digestive track, a dog while shorter than ours is much longer than a cats which means the cat is a true meatatarian, where the dog is almost there but can digest (although not completely) veggies and such. when they grind grains and throw them in food this makes them easily digestable which is why dogs can gain weight on foods with no meat. but there will be people that say dogs are total meatatarians like cats..

there was another interesting tidbit that re-enforces this is that cats are not thirst driven as in nature they get most of there water from fresh kills, dogs on the other hand are thirst driven which they beleive is a result of them eating more than just meat.

Steve

[marie]

I groom approx. 80 dogs a month, more then a few are on raw food diets but I would be hard pressed to say which ones were if I hadn't been told ahead of time.... Any benefits are in the eye of the beholder

The one thing more then any other that contributes to a shiny, healthy coat is fresh air and exercise. No matter what diet they get, be it kibble, raw or vegetarian if a dog is stuck in the house all day/everyday, their hair gets greasy, smelly and dander builds up

[Aquattro]

Steve, as I said, if one is comfortable feeding veggies, no harm done. Maybe they get something, maybe the grass comes out stinky. For me, I choose not to feed veggies.

Marie, absolutely, there is no way you're going to recognize a raw fed dog by looking at it (maybe teeth might suggest it, but otherwise no). The value of such a diet is in the eye of the beholder, measured often as before/after comparisons. For me, I notice the difference in my dogs, therefore my choice is clear to me.
Again, it's an individual thing, and a choice each dog owner makes after researching the options.
We can compare this to our own lives. We can eat crappy processed foods, or we can eat healthy organic raw foods. Most people won't look at us and know our diet (unless our diet is LOTS of pizza), but we know how we feel from eating different diets. I feel better and can perform better eating clean wholesome unprocessed foods, and this is something I prefer to offer my dogs as well. Feeding good kibble isn't bad, or isn't going to kill them, but it's possible the dog will feel better with real food. I owe it to my dogs to pursue the optimum for them. It's just a lifestyle choice I make...

[marie]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

....

Marie, absolutely, there is no way you're going to recognize a raw fed dog by looking at it (maybe teeth might suggest it, but otherwise no). The value of such a diet is in the eye of the beholder, measured often as before/after comparisons......

I am not just looking Brad, I am way more up close and personal with these dogs then their owners ever want to be.

I clean their yeasty ears, breath in the gases released from various orifices ( I won't even go into the liquids and solids that are also released) and see their teeth way closer then is sometimes comfortable....all this while the dog is on the same height as my nose

[marie]

I'm not trying to be confrontational but there is no hard proof of the benefits

[Myka]

I used to have my dog on a raw diet (meat/bone/offal only, no veggies/fruits/grains). Although she's generally a pig when it comes to food of any sort, she was very picky when it came to raw. I found I couldn't get her to eat some of the stuff needed for proper balanced raw nutrition (like bone-in chicken and fish), so I switched her to Evo. She became very gassy on Evo (both the red meat and the chicken/turkey), even after 1 year of eating it. I switched to Orijen about a year ago I think, and have never been happier. Orijen seems to be a very popular food these days. I recommend it to anyone to at least try out for 6 months.

I also daily feed plain yogurt, Tripett green tripe, and Wild Salmon oil. I have always fed my dogs twice a day, and I have been considering replacing the evening meal with raw.

Never mix kibble with raw food as they are digested at different speeds. I believe raw is digested in 4 hours, where kibble takes 8 hours.

I'm not sure if it has been posted yet or not, but here is a link for those who are interested to see how each brand of dog food rates and why: www.dogfoodanalysis.com

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by marie

I'm not trying to be confrontational but there is no hard proof of the benefits

No confrontation detected

I agree that there is no proof, and the results are not always clear. Sometimes it's possible that raw could be worse than a good kibble. I certainly am not trying to sell it as a better way, or that may dogs are any better than someone else's dogs.
For me, my dogs are involved in sports that require strength and stamina, and I believe you only get out what you put in. For me, raw is better. It's cleaner, non processed and doesn't contain anything I don't add.

As an example, if you meet me tomorrow, you won't be able to tell if I had good food today or bad. But I'm running a 10k tomorrow morning and I sure notice what type of fuel I take in. It's the same, I believe, for my dogs.
Sure some kibble these days are great products, and probably just as good for most dogs (Orijen comes to mind). In fact, I keep some handy just in case I need to feed it, such as when we're out of town at a tournament or trial. Much more convenient. But, as a staple diet, I prefer, for myself and my dogs, food as close to real as I can get.
Again, make no mistake, I fully support a good kibble, and would recommend it for the average person, but if someone asks, as this thread did, about raw, I will speak as an avid supporter, IF it's something a person is interested in.
And to be clear, I don't use pre-made formulas, I feed raw, whole food. Example - when salmon is on sale, I buy a bunch of them, freeze them for 24hr (for possible parasites), thaw and cut in half. Each dog gets half a salmon, alternating who gets heads or tails
The pup isn't big enough yet for whole fish, so she gets chicken wings.

For those that can't/don't want to consider raw, have a look at Orijen, great food. Myka posted a good link too, so if you feed kibble, check out how it rates!

[Funky_Fish14]

Originally Posted by marie

If you want to be believed then be very careful about making statements like this
.....We had a labrador that lived to be nearly 18, was fed Dog Chow all her life and never went to the vet. I also have a shih-tzu that will be 16 in march, fed kibble all her life and the only vet bills I've had other then vaccinations is for teeth cleaning

Lol yes cause I clearly said its impossible to have dogs survive to old age and good health with kibble.... *roll eyes*