Tangs in a 90?

[Rikko]

Originally Posted by naesco

so which experts and authors have made this a rule of thumb? I have never seen anyone but fanatics say you must have a 6 foot tank because if you think of it what does that mean?
All of them Stir; the brackets indicate my opinion. I have posted some threads which I have posted in the past.

Hardly an answer, Wayne. Who are "all" the experts? From both links you posted I see a deliberate and powerful unwillingness to provide any concrete numbers on tank size. The best we get is "the bigger the environment the better", and really, that applies to every-bloody-thing in the world. It's a fact that many, many people keep tangs in abismally small tanks and many (I won't say many, many this time) of them thrive.
Want an analogy? Keep a chinchilla in a small cage. They're cute, cuddly, and love to be scratched. I have mine in 48x36x80"H cages and they also get the room to run around in every other night for a few hours. Know what? They're not cute and cuddly. They generally consider me a food provider and otherwise ignore me. Which of the two are better pets? Sure, the ones in the bigger cage may be closer to "wild" rodents, but if that's the only environment they've known for a long period of time, they adapt and thrive in it. Same basis for that phenomenon of long-term prisoners being released and not wanting to go.

Tangs need the length for swimming. Volume is irrelavent. A large tank filled with coral with little end to end swimming room isn't any good either.

Not depth? Not height? You propose that a tank 6" wide and 6" tall but 120" long is superior to a standard 20 gallon tank?

Certainly no one with any experience would keep 3 tangs in a three foot tank.
No one with any experince would mix similar species of tangs
No one with any experience would choose an Achilles tang. A tang which is almost impossible to keep by the most experienced tang keepers with ideal setups.

Absolute rubbish on all counts, and you know it. Taking an ethical stand on something doesn't mean you're all of a sudden on the "right" side. We're all enslaving marine life in the name of our own amusement. We aren't helping anything (or are we "learning"? I could recall other experiments where great breakthroughs were made in the early 1940s, but it's not yet time to invoke Godwin's Law). Look carefully on the net and you'll see people with tangs (and a great many other things) in environments smaller than are "optimal" - they aren't advertising it, but they do it and they succeed. C'est la vie.

[Nemo]

I agree with Willow

Why don't we talk about all the newbies that make mistakes and kill fish and corals! I think they do far more "dammage" than some one trying to add a fish.
Since we have mostly agreed that keeping fish in a tank is not what fish would like. Then I think we can just as easily say that if some one is keepiing a fish in a less than ideal situation the one who suffers os the buyers pocket book.
So why don't we start talking about all of those who buy fish by the box load each month.
And naesco in case you have not figured it out, even the so called experts never agree. for every book you find supporting one point, I can find one supporting the other side. I for one do not have the time to start reading everything on subject, nor do I have the time to reasearch just how they came to there conclussions.
I figure how they did there reasearch using what meathods and under what conditions is by far the most important factor, But yet this seems to be ommited from books or just skimmed over.

So in a nut shell people are not going to spend money on something if they figure it is just going to die. Each and everyone of us thinks we are providing the best environment we can for the fish or coral to thrive under a less than ideal situation.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by reef_raf

Just gotta address this one. There is a guy over here that has had an Achilles in a 75 for years, and by all measures I can think of, it appears to be a happy healthy fish. I aldo recall you telling me that my white cheek would die in three months. That was two years ago. While some generalities may exist, pleae don't make up "rules". They may not apply in all cases.

There will always be exceptions. My comment is not a rule that I have made up,
My comment is based on reading what the experts say.
Robert Fenner
http://wetwebmedia.com/badacanthurusaq.htm
Terry Seigel had a good had a good article on them in the February issue of Advanced Aquarist 2002 but it is no longer there.
Many others have commented as well.

[Nemo]

Certainly no one with any experience would keep 3 tangs in a three foot tank.
No one with any experince would mix similar species of tangs
No one with any experience would choose an Achilles tang. A tang which is almost impossible to keep by the most experienced tang keepers with ideal setups.

I love this quote.

I was in Hawwii a few months back, and after reading this many times I was expecting to do some dives and maybe see one or 2 tangs in a large area.
Well to my surprise I saw hundreds of yellow tangs running in schools, along with the same for other types of tangs.
By the same token I saw many pairs or groups of three. And all types of species were living together side by side on the reef.
How about they had teritories established and they each respected the others. When you add a new fish to your tank the fighting and posturing is just your fish re establishing teritories.

So before you saw "No one with any experince would mix similar species of tangs" maybe you should go inform the fish they should not be able to co exist.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by Willow

damage? dang dude join greenpeace.

I have. Is there something wrong with Greenpeace?

Willow Have you read this article?
?http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/hcs3/index.htm

Care to comment on the subject of this thread?

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by naesco

I wonder whether those who encourage a new reefer to go out and stock smaller tanks with tangs know the damage they are doing? Sadly, they are aware of the numerous authorities on the subject but

Wayne, I'll assume this is directed partially toward me. What damage are you implying is done by my encouraging doch to get a tang? As for "authorities", by who's standards? I haven't bought any of there books, but I'm sure none of them did their Masters on Aquarium Sizing for Captive Tangs. I've only kept three tangs over 5 years, and 2 are still with me. I challenge you to come visit and explain how they are not happy. They look just fine to me. They have more swimming space now than they did in a tank twice as large, so is that bad?


As for everyone one else playing in this thread, please let's try to be constructive. Willow, we haven't even suggested closing the thread....chill.
As for naesco, sure, maybe he leans toward the tang police side of things, but if I ever come back as a tang, I want him as my attorney! Let's respect the other point of view, regardless of whether we agree or not. This is a god educational topic, and lots of readers might genuinely need to follow this to make a decision on a future purchase.

And as I said earlier, please do not attempt to modify the size of your tang to fit the tank. It's just wrong, and not very funny.

[EmilyB]

Nemo, Too funny. Do you think they have a little more room out there.....

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by EmilyB

Nemo, Too funny. Do you think they have a little more room out there.....

Just a bit, but you know the funny thing is they did not use it. They stayed in a very small area in large numbers.
If you are interested I have plenty of pics I would be happy to send to support that comment

[Ryan7]

Originally Posted by Beverly

I've got a 120g and would not keep any species of tang in it. Tangs get very large. Unless you are going to do a serious upgrade in the future for the sake of your tangs, I'd hold off. JMO, though.

Doch,

I read all the posts, and I have to agree with this one. Also, if you read the articles linked they clearly support this post as well.

I do however like the idea of a huge current for a tang to swim against if you are going to put one in a tank smaller than 6FT, but it doesn't mean I would condone it.

[Willow]

Is there something wrong with Greenpeace?

that answer would probably get me banned for sure.

Willow Have you read this article?
?http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/hcs3/index.htm

no

Care to comment on the subject of this thread?

ok, i think a regal tang in a 90 seems reasonable if given enough greens and current. although it's not up to me or you.