Discus Post

[Ryan]

I keep them like this because it is easier to keep the tank clean and w/c are alot easier. Once they are older i will move the ones that dont pair into another planted tank with some cardnals and other SA tetras. Thanks for the compliment on the stand my dad built it when we had oscars. It is nice but impractical..

reef_raf dont worry nothing is going to start.

BlkWolfe i know turqs are an original species and how hard the others are to breed i have been doing alot of reading latly. I havent read or heard of a pair yet that are not crazy. Most i hear about will eat their eggs for 5 batches then raise one or raise 1 batch and care for eggs but not fry. Thats all i mean.
Went onto Heps Discus and he has Batfin discus they are nice but it is an exapmle of why we measure from the nose to the base of the tail. Also shows how easy discus are to breed if they are given proper care.

I cant wait until these guys are bigger. They have grown about an inch a month well not an inch but close. I need to step up my feeding one notch. I havebeen feeding 3 times a day but i think whenever i see an empty tank (no food) i will feed. Make my discus Grow.

[BlkWolfe]

How does a batfin show that discus are easy to breed? Aside from that strain being bred for longer dorsal and anal fins, it is just like any other strain line bred for a desired trait. Replace "dorsal and anal fins" in my last sentance with anything from "more yellow", "more spots", "complete pattern", "yellow base", you end up with yellow crystals, red leopards, any number of strains, and red spotted yellows among other things.

btw, any measurement of body size is just that. body size. batfin discus arent really an example of anything. hifin or highbody discus arent measured vertically, only horizontally. Why are batfin discus an example of why "we" measure from the nose to base of tail? most reputable breeders sell by body length only. the only reason you would include the caudal fin, or any other fin for that matter, is to seemingly increase the size of your fish and hence jack up the price.

and another btw...if you look at the trailing edge of all those batfin fish, they dont extend back any further than the caudal, even on the longest ones. again, back to reputable breeders for body only, or price jackers including any/all fins

what was the relavence of all this towards your discus as well? you dont have any blue batfins do you?

I'm also very glad you read, however you still do need to practice some of what you read and preach before youll get those discus up to breeding age. youve pointed out in numerous threads and other forums how much care/time is required and how clean their environment must be kept, however every picture of your tanks and systems way back from when you started as a "ram breeder" up until your new discus a few days ago, the sponges are covered in crap, there are layers of uneaten food on the bottom, and you yourself just stated that your best discus has only grown 3/4" in 3 months

Noticed on your theads in the other forums you took some new pics today. can we see how clean your keeping your tanks now that your putting in those extra sponges, the ac500, and especially since your going to be feeding so much extra to speed up their growth?

wait, dont they need to eat it first?

[Ryan]

The batfin show that they are easy to breed by just that the batfin. If they were so hard then no one would bother breeding them for special finnage. Or they couldnt breed for special finnage i should say. The highfins are just the beginning of the batfin.
Now as to your second statement what does a batfin have to do with measurement. They have an exteded tail muvh like a veil. So if we were measuring the tail we would be seeing 12 inch discus insead of 8 inch discus.
www.hepsdiscuscenter.com If you look u r right the trailing edge doesnt go past the caudal fin but thats becasue the caudal fin is increased in size. It was just an example BlkWolfe.
Now as for the tank being dirty. I have only posted first day photos there buddy. And with my other ones they only cam out when u fed them they were so skiddish this is why there was always "crap" on the ground. But if you fed your fish beef heart like alot of discus breeders you would know that. Or you would ask why there is all that stuff on the bottom.
Also if i stated that my discus have only grown 3/4 inch i ment to hit the "2" button i am sorry and apologize for this. I can see she has grown (my turq) alot but my BD hasnt grown much. I think he went off food for a while there this is the only reason i can think of. Now i did tank and rinse the sponges once again and it must be the camera becasue they look like they are the same colour. That brown. So it has to be the camera wthere it is the angle or what i do not know.
I dont have the AC 500 on the tank yet i am buying it on boxing day. I am waiting to psot the pics becasue i am saving them for simply. And what r u trying to say wait they need to eat first. If you are just trying to start a fight please quit posting on this thread and go bother some one else. No one like as smart @$$

[BlkWolfe]

So a batfin is easy to breed correct? Do you have a reason that they are not available in almost every LFS like turks or pigeon bloods are?

and if they were hard no one would bother breeding them? so does this go for every strain thats difficult? have you contacted all the asian breeders selling singapore fireworks, golden leopard snakes, and a couple dozen more strains that require special care of the fry to tell them they're wasting their time?

my statement was more along the lines of what does a batfin have to do with your fish to begin with since you brought them up

a hifin/hibody fish has nothing to do with a batfin fish. do you see bodies that are taller than long? or fins that are the same height as the body of the fish? a batfin is simply has longer finnage, not any taller in body or fin

the caudal on the hifins on dear mike's website isnt any larger than any other discus in his pictures. discus are not angels. there are no extended ventrals, pectoral or caudal fins on the batfins.

as for the size of your fish, we just went over this a page ago. you very clearly say you purchased your prized turk at 2" three months ago, and his current size is 3". so the fish is really 4-5" or do you mean the new turks you just purchased have grown 2" in the last 2 weeks?

im not starting any fight. youve been doing that quite well on your own. im starting to wonder why i ever got involved trying to help you.

one last thing about the beefheart...i have fed it...along with bloodworms, brine shrimp, mysis, flakes, blackworms among other things. one page back you said that stuff in the pics was bloodworms...now its beefheart?

so if i fed beefheart...i would know why there is a layer of uneaten food sitting on the bottom fouling your water?

and you put brand new, stressed discus into a tank lined with algea, waste covered sponge, and bottom covered in food fouling the tank?

do you really see nothing wrong with this?

[Ryan]

No i ma not saying that they are hard to breed or easy to breed. I am saying the species in general are fairly easy to breed if you take the time to give them the correct water conditions. THe reason they are not available in a pet store is simply the price. No pet store hobbiest well the average pet store hobiest isnt going to buy a fish for 200 dollars. Now dont flip i am accounting for the price increase that the pet stores do. I have contacted a few singapore discus breeders and they said that most of their discus raise the fry but becasue if the inbreeding that they do have to hand raise a few. Once again the batfins were just and example. O okay i thought that the highfin were the beginning of the batfin. I heard this but i cannot remeber who told me i think it was Smokey but i aint sure. No my turq is like 3.5 4 inches i put a ruler up to the tank. I feed both blood worms and beefheart. I just wasnt sure what u were refering too. No i mean it sits on the bottom but not for more than 30 minutes then i vacum it all off. The tank is perfectly clean the sponges are clean the back wall is the only wall with algea for my Bristolnose pleco. And there is never any waste on the bottom of my tank. The discus stand for them selves they have no stress bars are eting and are perfectly healthy. Just becasue you are a "expert" and a breeder doesnt mean you know everything. I dont know everything either not even close. But if it makes you feel superior try to rip on some teenager because his tank has food that was fed 30 minutes ago. I am sorry i have to feed this way but if you could tell me how to get my fish to feed from my hand i am all ears.

[BlkWolfe]

K lets get to these in order...

in one of your posts you say they are finicky...the next post you say they are easy...so since you seem to know this so well, how many spawns have you raised? How many spawns of blue rams did you raise when you were that prolific breeder you always claimed to be on AA before you got banned. Reason i ask is ram fry are not nearly as difficult as discus fry, you must have raised something else before youd jump headfirst into discus breeding...right?

Why dont you go ask smokey if he told you or not?

So, a few days ago you say your turk is 3 inches...now he's just short of 4"? let me guess, body only last week, now your including the caudal fin when you measure today. but im sure it wouldnt be any problem to put that ruler up against the bottom of the tank and take a pic when he goes by.

Never said i was an expert. Im a hobbyist same as you claim to be. unlike you, i would never start a reply "i have no experience but".

http://s6.invisionfree.com/AlbertaAq...showtopic=1031

btw, since your giving advice, how is your sw/reef tank doing?

and finally, i dont care if your 8 years old or 80. any man woman or child that shows the same irrisponsibility towards their fish as you should take a break and see if this is really the hobby for them. youve been given volumes of advice which you never follow or quote another source as being more reliable. tote yourself as the great taber ram breeder, how about having some of your clients post to the quality/health of the fish you sold?

[Ryan]

Well i have not raised any spawns of discus because my fish r not mature yet. As for the ram fry i didnt bother even trying to raise the babies yet becasue the pair was still fairly young and they were not having very many babies. I will try to take him out a measure him tonight. I have taken down the SW tank there buddy that was a long time ago. I had taken it down to raise Discus and they are doing better than my reef. U sure act like you are an expert with all these claims of yours. irrisponsibility towards my fish what r u talking about my fish are happy and thrive. Just because i cannot keep the tank 100 percent clean like your doesnt mean anything. When did i say i was a big ram breeder i said i have had my rams breed for me but never realy took the time to raise the young.

[Ryan]

Okay BlkWolfe tell me what i need to do to my tank to make it fit your standars. Let me point out one thing. I cannot put a permanent AC on my tank because there is no room. So I am listening and will tak oyour advice. Tell me what i need to do. Here is what i am doing

Syphon 75 percent every other day.
Syphon off bottom crap (5 gallons) daily
Sometimes i do more
Fed 3 times (morning, 130 and 6
Beefheart is what i feed.

Lets remeber that i wont be able to buy a hole crap load of stuff right off. I will take every bit of advise you give seriously and will try to make it work in my tank.

[BlkWolfe]

Whatever you say Ryan

i havent claimed anything in my posts. all is from my experience with raising and breeding my fish. i havent set up websites advertising myself as a breeder and yet had nothing for sale. Ask anyone thats been to my home to see my fish, in regards to their health, size and proliferation.

by request and outta respect for the forum and the mods im just gonna leave this alone. was fun arguing with you, and i hope any newbies that come this way read this thread and see just what your posts, experience, and suggestions are really worth.

Cya

[BlkWolfe]

this has been beaten to death with you on the other forums...i doubt youll follow this but hopefully someone else reading this wanting discus will...

Never said you HAVE to have an aquaclear on your tank. look at the flow going through that one filter you have (i know i use them on 20g breeders). they dont even put out half what an AC mini does. if your stuck using those little dual sponges, at least 3 in that tank. ideally, a couple bigger hydro sponges. and you wont need that bubble bar

Ideally, pull out the guppies and bristlenose. there shouldnt be any algea in there period for the bn to feed on. if you gotta leave it, feed it algea wafers. your saying you do 50% changes one day, 75% the next, even saw you say 95% daily on simply. for those fish when you get adequate filtration 60% daily should be more than sufficient until they're 4"+ (body only ). nitrates shouldnt go above 10ppm between wc's, ideally never above 5ppm

take paper towels, wipe down every surface in that tank. sides, lids and bottom. let all the crud settle then siphon it off the bottom. SQUEEZE your sponges clean, no layers of crap

Feed less. your feeding beefheart, a very high protien food. overfeeding and letting it sit in the tank. it doesnt matter if you siphon it, all that BH sitting on the bottom for half an hour is still fouling your water. start by just feeding what they eat and dont leave it to just dissolve into the water. the fish werent eating it in the morning, there no point dumping another load in the afternoon, or again in the evening and just sihponing it down the drain

the only thing you need is 2 more dual sponges and some attention to the tank. your not buying the whole store

ok i swear im leaving this time