Legality question

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

There seem to be a debait on the right answer, I think someone should give those guys a call and the right answer.
I think depending on the situation sometimes if you are a child or maybe a reefer with a couple pieces of corals showing its only for your tank they will simply letyou gowith no hassel.

[reefermadness]

whether the customs agent knows it or not CITES is still NEEDED for any stony corals including all SPS and LPS to legally import/export across CAN/US borders. This FACT is indisputable.

It sucks but its true. There are enough threads on the forum already about the subject.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by reefermadness

There are enough threads on the forum already about the subject.

Ya, but it's all relative to the source.

[phi delt reefer]

myka when i get home i wlll post my emails from the US and Canadian governing bodies for CITES...

they let you go when you were 14 - because you were 14 year old girl lol. They dont make me pay taxes on everything i bring over...its just an imperfect system. honestly you could just say "these are all softies" - bag em up 10 times and its not even going to look like anything online so they will just let it go. This is illegal though so if you get caught be prepared to screw yourself for life everytime you go back to the border.

problem with the cites list is that it lists the ORDER latin name which NONE of us recognize;

Kingdom:AnimaliaPhylum:CnidariaClass:AnthozoaOrder:ScleractiniaFamily:AcroporidaeGenus:Acropora


we are used to Acropora xyz... CITES Appendix two lists the ORDER Scleractinia as Stony Corals requiring CITES export permit. LPS falls into the same order but you can see how they screw us by saying everything under that ORDER is CITES controlled.

the forms for personal use of corals is free and their is no charges. As soon as its for a business be prepared to pay.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by phi delt reefer

...problem with the cites list is that it lists the ORDER latin name

...CITES Appendix two lists the ORDER Scleractinia as Stony Corals requiring CITES export permit.

...the forms for personal use of corals is free and their is no charges. As soon as its for a business be prepared to pay.

Oh I see. Very interesting. That even counts Zoanthids which are often legal to export from countries. Hmm.

Are you saying that there are "personal use" CITIES permits? These are free? I assume they probably take several weeks to get in order? Is this where the whole "can't sell frags" law comes in? I can bring them in, but if I frag it I have to give it away instead of sell. Also very interesting.

[phi delt reefer]

Originally Posted by Myka

Oh I see. Very interesting. That even counts Zoanthids which are often legal to export from countries. Hmm.

Are you saying that there are "personal use" CITIES permits? These are free? I assume they probably take several weeks to get in order? Is this where the whole "can't sell frags" law comes in? I can bring them in, but if I frag it I have to give it away instead of sell. Also very interesting.

yep - if you are just a collector then the cites export permit is free. if you are a retailer then its a different form and you have to pony up some cash.

its legal to export everything but live rock i believe. just need the right permits. fish dont need any permits unless its a controlled species (ie possible extinction or may cause harm to canadian eco system if released)

[msjboy]

from the previous threads, so has anyone actually brought in personal corals with some CITES form then?

I noticed that http://coralfanatics.com/shipping.html does have the ability to ship some corals internationally... does it mean if they provide paperwork of the corals, one can
a) bring it across the border from say a USA post PO box
b) or in what I read, get it in the Fedex mail albeit, expensive shipping.

Also, I know of some plant people who have CITES permits for plants.... do they have the ability to bring in corals for you then?

msjboy

[jorjef]

Originally Posted by msjboy

from the previous threads, so has anyone actually brought in personal corals with some CITES form then?

I noticed that http://coralfanatics.com/shipping.html does have the ability to ship some corals internationally... does it mean if they provide paperwork of the corals, one can
a) bring it across the border from say a USA post PO box
b) or in what I read, get it in the Fedex mail albeit, expensive shipping.

Also, I know of some plant people who have CITES permits for plants.... do they have the ability to bring in corals for you then?

msjboy

Funny this came up. I just asked about a week ago and the reply from Coral Fanatics was there was a $275.00 document charge and $75.00 shipping. I never inquired further on what the document charge covered.

[phi delt reefer]

lol i am not suprised they charged that much. I saw the US form and i didnt feel that any store would go to the hassle of filling it out unless i was going to spend some real money with them.

with that said - US importers buy from the same exporters as our Canadian importers buy from. If your store imports their own corals vs. buying from a local wholesaler you can see if they can bring in some better selection or piggyback off their order for your personal use.

[saltcreep]

It's been pretty much covered. All scleractinia require CITES permits, be it an export or re-export permit.

Since these corals are not endemic to the US, a re-export will be required to be obtained prior to shipping from the US. With that application the original export permit (from the original country of origin) will be required to be supplied to the US Fish and Wildlife.

It's a little blurry when dealing with cultured product as in many instances, tracing the original import to the US is almost impossible.

Yes, when dealing with CBSA (or Canadian Wildlife) they do not have the resources nor the knowledge to adequately deal with imports of coral. Further complicating things will be the new legislation coming into force in December that will oversee imports of fish (but that's a whole other ball of wax).