% salt water stock coming from farms?

[BlueAbyss]

Originally Posted by Drock169

...the cost of running something like that in Canada wouldnt be cheap which means higher prices, and from what I know, there is a large majority of people in the hobby who don't want to spend premium prices.

Absolutely. If it were feasible, I think someone would already have gone this route.

EDIT: I would also like to say that if you choose your livestock carefully, you can minimize the impact on natural reefs. Choose more common fishes, coral frags (rather than colonies), and make your own rock.

[Palmer]

Thanks again for the info. It's at least good that there is information about which species are more at risk and likely to survive. When I set my tank up I will try and use as much aquacultured stock as I can.

Palmer

[Nebthet]

Not a problem. I have emailed CITES directly to get some more extensive information from them because if there is a chance that I can go to the states and buy a crap load of corals from Liveaquaria or else where and then bring them across the border then I am going to do that. I don't mind paying for the import permits, for a one time only as they are not very expensive.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Drock169

Lets not get into the whole ORA coral thing, its been officially confirmed that they wont ship to canada, and their supplier doesnt seem to have anything nice to offer even though they can ship to canada.
As far as ORA fish goes, they dont offer much to Canada, clowns and dottybacks are all they offer on a regular basis, every now and then gobies/blennies are available.

I didn't say anything about buying ORA corals - or fish for that matter!! I said check it out. It is an interesting website if you're interested in captive bred fish and aquacultured corals. It gives a person an idea of what is available captive bred.

If you look hard enough you can find quite a few captive bred fish. Some I have seen are: Neon Dottybacks, Orchid Dottybacks, most species of Clownfish, Pajama and Bangaii Cardinals (the latter I have bred myself), neon gobies. I think a few others that I'm forgetting.

Originally Posted by Nebthet

Not a problem. I have emailed CITES directly to get some more extensive information from them because if there is a chance that I can go to the states and buy a crap load of corals from Liveaquaria or else where and then bring them across the border then I am going to do that. I don't mind paying for the import permits, for a one time only as they are not very expensive.

Good luck getting the import permits. You actually need re-export permits, and that means that LiveAquaria (or whoever else) will have to give you all the information about where the coral originally came from, which means giving up their suppliers' names. Giving out suppliers' names would be like giving out the code to your safe.

[Nebthet]

Luckily there are ways to get around the re-export permits. I have family that live in the States so all I really have to tell them is that they broke down their tank and rather than letting the corals die, they are giving them to me instead.

Now if Liveaquaria was to ship them to Canada, they would require the re-export permit, but not if they are delivering to a destination within the United States and I am picking it up. That is what others have done. Besides, I am not beyond smuggling stuff in if there is something I really want.

[o.c.d.]

Nebthet Special Forces Aqua Division...Codename Nebanatior...Mission: Coral Recovery..... Don't say anymore on this form I've detected a key tap surveillance system ..I think they are on to you.. what hu no.. no....please..
...

[mike31154]

Free Trade Agreement? What Free Trade Agreement? It's a joke, there's no way we should have to jump through these hoops for some goods. You can get around Europe from one country to he next without a hitch and here in NA we're closing our borders more & more to our so called friendly neighbours. Arrggh, politicians, now you got me started....

[whatcaneyedo]

Originally Posted by mike31154

Free Trade Agreement? What Free Trade Agreement? It's a joke, there's no way we should have to jump through these hoops for some goods. You can get around Europe from one country to he next without a hitch and here in NA we're closing our borders more & more to our so called friendly neighbours. Arrggh, politicians, now you got me started....

My feelings exactly.

[Nebthet]

Originally Posted by o.c.d.

Nebthet Special Forces Aqua Division...Codename Nebanatior...Mission: Coral Recovery..... Don't say anymore on this form I've detected a key tap surveillance system ..I think they are on to you.. what hu no.. no....please..
...

I so need to use this for my signature.. lol ..

and yeah.. I agree.. there is no such thing as NAFTA any more. It is all about the all mighty dollar and what the government can take from you. Grr

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Nebthet

Actually to add on to the previous, what I am finding interesting, after going through and reading all of the CITES appendices, On page 32 of the Appendices lists where it states the regulations on corals, it states only SCLERACTINIA spp. under Appendices II for stony corals.

Scleractinia Spp. Are Maricultured corals. Meaning all stony corals taken directly from the Sea.

This is a flawed interpretation. When you get a CITES permit individual stony coral species are identified in the documentation. Scleractinia Spp is used as a catch all for things like live rock, any thing that was at some point live coral. Things like soft corals and mushrooms do not need a CITES permit to import provided they are not attached to any rock at all. If they are attached to rock, maricultured or not then a permit specifying so many pieces of Scleractinia Spp is required.

Originally Posted by Nebthet

The only thing I can think of to do in a situation like this, to allow us as Canadians to get access to more tank bred fish and more aquacultured corals is to ask CITES to look into creating allowances for aquacultured/farmed corals.

I am going to look into anyways.

The requirement for importing cultured stony corals from the US is very simple but a complete PITA for the exporter to handle. Every time they export a frag they need to resubmit the original import permit for the colony. Obviously this is not always possible but it's there for a reason, it keeps people from doing a chop shop re-export thing.

Changing this will require amending an international treaty, it won't be simple. It probably won't accomplish anything either. Any framework that has good enough documentation requirements to stop the chop shop style abuse is going to put enough of a burden on US exporters that they won't want to do it. ORA and Tyree and waiting lists now, why would they want to go through the hassle?