MH and Heat - turning my tank into soup cooking pot?

[WWWD]

Something about your setup sounds weird, I have a 42 cube with a 250 hqi over it, large skimmer and sizable return pump and I am struggling to keep the tank warm.

Is the top of your tank open and gets circulation around it?
Do you have a sump?
How many powerheads do you have in there?
Are there other contributing factors close by that are adding to the ambiant heat in the room, ie; fridge, computer, heat register?

Btw, a 1/10HP chiller will be cycling on and off a lot on a 50 gallon tank with heat issues. A 50 gallon really needs a 1/5 HP.

[andsoitgoes]

The house we're in has horrible insulation and my wife and I must just produce a LOT of heat

I have no cover on my tank, previously did have a glass top, but took that off as soon as I got the legs.

No sump yet, but am putting in one in the next few weeks.

I have 4 powerheads (I know this isn't helping the situation) - and I struggle with getting ample flow to the right places. I have 1 PS 20, 1 AC 301, and 1 coraline covered u/k powerhead

There's no computer in the room, there are another 5 tanks nearby, the one below (my Freshwater planted) is a cool 75, and the tanks to the left are all running below 80. There's the standard Aqualight Pro fan installed on the light as well.

Heat register is covered in the room (magnetic cover)

I figured a 1/10 was too much, can't seem to find a 1/5 anywhere, but that's why I'm starting now.

Just wondering if the sump will answer a lot of the problems, but my initial goal is to do a refugium w/ skimmer above as my tank isn't drilled - hoping that won't cause more problems than it's worth.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

No, if heat is an issue, you would only need to keep it running during the hours that your MH is on. Is the door to the room left open or closed during the day? If my tank starts to heat up in our ground floor suite this summer, I will probably get a room a/c unit, which I think is more cost effective than a chiller for each tank. During the winter months is actually a good time to pick one up.

[andsoitgoes]

that's what I've been thinking about. Gosh this tank is costing me more than I expected

We leave the door to the room closed during the day - we've got 4 cats that would cause rather insane amounts of chaos in the bedroom if we left it open - but I know that's a part of the problem, too.

I'm going to try a few more things, I'm going to keep the surface fan on a timer as well.

How does everyone hook up the PC fans easily? Is there a transformer that will convert the power connection to a standard AC power?

[Chaotic Cricket]

Originally Posted by andsoitgoes

Okay - first, the low side of chillers I'd need are only about 450 (only, hah) - http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/s...t_ID=ch-pc002i

So that answers that problem.

I've got my light a good 4" from the water surface. And it's a Double-Ended HQI bulb as well. Other than the fan, nothing was taking down the temp yesterday, until I turned off the MH...

As for the thermo - I used 2 different kinds. One from my salinity testing probe and one from a coralife electro thermometer. Both gave readings in the 80's - 80, 81, etc.

In the summer my first thought was to just get a small window A/C which I figured would solve the problem, but I know that means I need to keep IT running 24/7 - Surrey in July, yikes!!

Maybe we should just move to Antartica? =/

I thought i might jump in here, this being my first post on canreef. Been around awhile, but the infighting on reefcentral kept me off forums for awhile. Still only lurk around there, but i like what i see here so i registered.


Anyways, most fixtures I've had, and I've had a few. Most manufacturers recommend at least 8 inches or so from the waters surface. I know people put them closer to the water for better penetration, but it brings in new problems. The gain you receive being that close does not outweigh the cost of a chiller. I would put your lights at 10-11 inches up, then move them a half an inch to an inch closer closer until the heat is an issue again, then you will have a balance. If you cannot go with a chiller you will find the fans that you use to cool it will have you constantly filling up with top-off water due to evaporation.

[draco]

You can get a 450 chiller on ebay new for bettween $500 -$600 right now

[fkshiu]

Alright, I'll throw my 2 cents in as well.

1. How is your fan pointed? Ideally, you should have it pointing slightly down at the water creating some small waves and ripples rather than entirely parallel with the surface. The reason is that evaporative cooling is dependent on surface area. Your goal is to make your tank "sweat" more. You do this by disturbing the surface to create more surface area allowing more evaporation as opposed to simply attempting to blow hot air away. Aiming your powerheads such that you get more surface agitation also helps.

An additional benefit of more evaporation would be the necessity of having to add more (cool) top-up water.

2. Adding more water via a sump would definitely help since you'd have more water volume to absorb the heat and another surface with which to blow air across for further evaporative cooling.

3. That said, I don't think you have to panic about your temperature being ~80-81 degrees F? Many reefs are kepts in the low 80s.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

This is just one of a number of articles suggesting that such temperatures are fine for reefs.

[danny zubot]

I don't think low 80's is an issue either, as my reef has survived mid 80's for prolonged periods of time with no issues. However, come summer time the temp may jump a lot higher in what sounds to me like a room that will roast that tank. Hats off to you andsoitgoes for being pro-active.

[andsoitgoes]

lol - thanks Danny ^_^

having a very expensive pot of partially cooked sushi is NOT something I'm wanting to think about And speaking of Sushi - I was thinking about the LED lights, but OY vey - I'm trying to save money

fkshiu - I don't have the fan pointed directly at the surface, I have the unhealthy fear that said fan will dip and make a dive into the water, and I don't want to test out my voltage grounding thing that much. I guess getting a better fan would be an idea - any suggestions at what would work?

Chaotic Cricket - thank you for the response, I hadn't thought about that, as prior to this the person that had the tank simply had it resting on the glass top I've taken off. With only having a 150w MH, I know I'm limited at the extent of corals I can have, and I was hoping to get a clam at some point and time, and unless I put up top, I'm still going to struggle. Also, raising it up would include the need to install it in the ceiling, which could be an issue due to renting and not planning on that when we set up the tank.

I'm okay doing tanks with daily top-up, if that's what it is then so be it. But I also need to ensure that my room isn't a sauna, it's hard enough to sleep in there on GOOD nights, let alone on really hot ones. The tank is really bringin' down the heat and it sucks, to say the least.

So - right now my options seem as such:

- AC unit in the bedroom for the hotter times
- 1/10hp chiller for the tank
- Fans pointing at the top of the tank, causing surface evap

The question is - with my tank temps hitting as high as they are now in middle of winter, they'll obviously bump up way more in summer (right now ambient room temp is about 75, tank temp is about 6 higher normally with the MH on, heater is off during the day) will the fans only do UNTIL summer?

Is the noise and extra heat from the chiller worth it, PLUS the cost?

Does an A/C unit seem like the most logical solution?

[fkshiu]

An AC unit does sound logical. Another thing I forgot to mention was that you get more evaporation with lower relative humidity. I noticed that you have multiple tanks in the same room. This could be driving up the humidity preventing proper evaporative cooling. An AC should help this, but in the meanwhile, try venting the room with a fan flowing out the door/window.

Lastly, try eliminating a few of your powerheads if possible. I've got just two in my 45 bow on a wavemaker and everything's been dandy.