HELP....Ginger has lots and lots of new puppies

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Jamieh

My turn now. See you have a Bichon and you have a Shih-Tzu. Purpose of both to 90% of world is family pet. Both have some problems in the breed such as nasal in the Shih-Tzu. Cross breed them and you usually end up with a great family pet with few health issues. But to you perfect people this should not be allowed and little Sally should have Shih-Tzu with bad nasal problems. Not to mention how few actual genetic breeders there are vs how many people only want a good healthy family pet.

your turn was 1/2 right.. the Bichon is concidered a companion pet now, but only because of the uncertenty of its ancestory..

as for the Shih-Tzu, or tibetan lion dog, it was bread as a guard dog for the temples which required little activity and food making them easy to have.

Steve

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by howdy20012002

If your true breeders don't do it for the money why aren't they giving their puppies away???
lets be honest, unless it was a mistake, ultimately everyone breeds for money..or in some cases the prestige i guess they feel they get from the dog shows.
Which off course, if they do well at, the puppies they sell will be worth all the more.

Well, I can't really speak with authority for most breeds, and Border Collies don't quite fit into normal criteria. A good breeder for my breed only breeds proven parents, those that place well in sheepdog trials, or work full time on a farm with stock. And usually when these breedings happen, it's to obtain their next working dog, with the rest sold to other handlers. And a PB Border Collie from proven parents can be found for $500 or less, so not a lot of money above costs.
We don't have a breed standard for physical traits, only the requirement to be able to work sheep well, which is a rather unique thing for BCs and we want to preserve.
Yes, some "show" barbie collies get produced, and sport dogs as well, often for a lot more money. But the true breeders don't do it for profit, they do it for love of the breed.
And to address your supply/demand question, if people refused to buy bulk rate puppies, the supply of quality pups would go up. Unfortunaely there will always be a profit factor, and my perfect world scenario will never come to be, but it's something to strive for, rather than just going with the flow.
There are people on my side, people on your side, and people on the fence. It's the fence sitters I'm hoping to influence, to at least slow the damage being done now. Ultimately, more and more breeds will vanish, or lose the ability to do what they were originally meant to do. For Border Collies, we strive to maintain the instinct to work with a handler in managing livestock.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Jamieh

Just so I get this all straight with the Holier than Thou breeders of the board. No one but you experts whose sole purpose is to further the genetic make-up and strive for perfection in the breed should be able to breed and sell puppies??? I wonder if the Labra-Doodle breeders are included in your clan?

Nooo designer dogs are shuned and not reconized by any legit kennel or breeder. the whole thing is a lie and not a breed but rather a mut as the results are not consistant or repeatable.. these are very good examples of back yard breeders trying to cash in on a trend.

Steve

[Murminator]

Jeebus this thread went to h*ll in a handbasket Congats on the new puppies Neal.

Now will some of you preachers come to my neighborhood and preach to all my neighbors about all their friggin cats running around

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Murminator

Now will some of you preachers come to my neighborhood and preach to all my neighbors about all their friggin cats running around

Sorry, one mission at a time

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Murminator

Jeebus this thread went to h*ll in a handbasket Congats on the new puppies Neal.

Now will some of you preachers come to my neighborhood and preach to all my neighbors about all their friggin cats running around

gladly

My cat is a indoor only cat and even though I love them I hate it when they are let out to roam where ever.. nothing better than weeding the flower garden and getting the cunky surprise

Steve

[marie]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

.....
There are people on my side, people on your side, and people on the fence. It's the fence sitters I'm hoping to influence, to at least slow the damage being done now. Ultimately, more and more breeds will vanish, or lose the ability to do what they were originally meant to do. For Border Collies, we strive to maintain the instinct to work with a handler in managing livestock.

Border collies are the exception to the rule I'm afraid. Thats why they weren't recognized by the ckc for so long...the people that care for the breed wanted to keep the breeders who breed for show from messing them up.


*Edit* I don't have much use for so called professional breeders I'm afraid. There are good ones out there and then there are reputable breeders out there who were caught keeping genetic epilepsy in their stud dogs hidden from other breeders (true story)

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by marie

there are reputable breeders out there who were caught keeping genetic epilepsy in their stud dogs hidden from other breeders (true story)

how do they do that Marie? when I was looking into what was involved in having a stud dog you have to be able to show genetic info back 10 generations plus clearances and COIs. if there was a knowen problem such as that its genetic it would be pretty hard to hide. along with the responcibility of having the stud as any genetic problem seams to always be the studs fault and then you are on the hook for refunding the stud fees and dammages. I also discovered that even if the stud isn't at fault it is usaly blamed on him, god forbid there was somthing wrong with the bitch

I agree that there are "reputable" breeders out there that are not as ethical as they would protray, but that is why it is on the ownus of the purchser to do his home work also. I got in touch with about 10 people who have gotten dogs over the last 8 years from mine and had a good chat. usaly the not so good ones are not in business for very long or have a couple litters then disapear for a while and come back under a different name. I even wet as far as to look up 5 generations of clearances and genetic info on the mom and dad of my boy as it was all reported online and simple to look up. not only do you see that but you can see the litter mates of them all and see how long the dogs who are dead lived and usaly there is a reason for the death listed also.

Steve

[marie]

A friend of mine was a lab breeder and when puppies started coming back to her with epilepsy she checked back on her lines first and then investigated the stud breeder....they had managed to keep it hidden over 4 generations and when finally confronted they admitted that there was epilepsy in that line going back at least 6 generations.
Something like epilepsy is easier to hide then the more obvious hip displasia ect

[marie]

Any way Howdy I would take a good backyard breeder who raises the puppies in the home and chooses a good tempered stud over a "show confirmation" breeder anyday