Dry Rock and long-term bacterial bloom

[jon.smolders]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Sorry to hijack your thread by the way Jon. I was just very happy to see this thread since I seem to be going through an identical issue at the moment.

No worries. If it is the same issue then it would be interesting to see if there our systems have something in common that could be causing it. You said your system is two months old? Are you 100% dry rock right now? Also let me know if the UV works for you...

Originally Posted by gobytron

I would definitely be exploring other explanations other than bacterial bloom.

What else could it be?

I did come across a random reference on RC about a guy having cloudy water that only went away when he changed his RO membrane... he didn't go into any detail though. Mine is four years old, but I had it in storage for two of those years (it didn't dry out). It is still reading 0 TDS though so it should still be good...? Now that I think about it, it does spike to 40ppm for the first 30 seconds or so before falling to 0. Would that be an issue?

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by jon.smolders

No worries. If it is the same issue then it would be interesting to see if there our systems have something in common that could be causing it. You said your system is two months old? Are you 100% dry rock right now? Also let me know if the UV works for you...

I used about 200 pounds of dry rock but I bleached it then gave it an acid bath and dried it in the sun for days. Then I cycled it in the tank for over two months before adding fish. I also used Prodibio to help with the bacteria. I added about 100 pounds of live rock to the display tank about a month ago too to help seed everything. I've sinced moved it to the fish room in a 100G dark tank designed for rock only that's connected to the rest of the system. I also run carbon. I figured that would be enough to get rid of the haze in the tank but unfortunately not. I should also mention I've sold a ton of the extra rock I had from the same batch to other reefers and they didn't have any problems that I'm aware of and their tanks are flourishing. They were adding it to their existing already established setups though. Since I'm starting to lose fish now, I'm getting really worried something else is wrong. All parameters are great though. I'll let you know how it goes. I look forward to your experience as well.

[TimT]

Originally Posted by Gobytron

I would definitely be exploring other explanations other than bacterial bloom.

An easy way to be sure it's bacteria is to check your nitrates. No or minimal nitrates means it's bacteria and not a buffer issue.

Originally Posted by jon.smolders

Maybe this is the simplest option? Would it matter what size I used? I was leaning toward a 9W Green Killing Machine because I can get one shipped for about $75...

The hazy water and whitish growth on the inside of the glass is indeed bacteria. Free floating bacteria are very easy to kill with a UV, so the 9 watt should be adequate. Just make sure to put nothing larger than 300 gph pump on it or you won't get a high enough dosage to kill the bacteria.

Originally Posted by Jaws

Not me. I'd be surprised if there wasn't enough oxygen though. My tank has a coast to coast overflow plus 3 Maxspect Gyres, 2 MP40 Vortechs and 4 Tunze 6105s so there's plenty of surface agitation too. Or does that not matter in this case?

Current within the tank is good for promoting gas exchange at the surface but a skimmer is much better. Put the UV on your tank and it should clear the bacteria very quickly.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by TimT

Current within the tank is good for promoting gas exchange at the surface but a skimmer is much better. Put the UV on your tank and it should clear the bacteria very quickly.

Thanks Tim. I'll get on that right away. I do have a simmer running in the sump downstairs too.

[Skimmin]

Interesting guys. Just wanted to let you know that I too had this issue. Started Sept 26/14 cycling 250lbs of pukani in a tub with heat and no light for a month. Took it out. No stink but still some noticeable organics. Put into my new 300gal on Nov 26. Began dosing vinegar immediately. After about two weeks the tank clouded up so bad i couldnt see through from one side to the other. Reduced dosing substantially and after a week cleared up pretty decent. Tank is clear now. Im also sure it is bacteria but not sure what from....?I added chromis and a dozen snails Dec 26. I now have 13 of 15 chromis left in the tank and have had no snails or crabs die so I hope I'm ok. Dealing with a pretty nasty diatom/algae bloom now so gonna stick with vinegar and hope it dies off soon enough. Not sure what its worth but I've been running a skimmer since day one.

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

Bacteria bloom is due to few things happening in a tank.My views only on what I have seen and know.This might be rambling so bare with me

With new rocks that has just been cycled and placed into the main display (if recipes been followed correctly) 1st lighting should be at a slow start instead of a full blast as this will get different bacteria from the cycle to bloom.

if curing rock in any type of tub with no lighting and high temperature and adequate flow grows the type of bacteria that will not fully survive under full lighting and that produces your rock to cycle again in the main display (one of witch bacteria bloom in the water column)

Any type of carbon dosing(too many to count the brands out in the market) is not required while curing as the rock has ample of amino to keep the nitrifying bacteria multiplying to the point of totally curing the rock)

Early removal of any dry rock from cycle period will get different bacteria bloom in the display,yes it is ugly but will dissipate in time given that the only thing running in a display would be the skimmer and carbon.

At any time the rock or a living thing gets removed or added to a tank or maybe re-aquascape there will be a war by bacteria be it noticeable or not.

Trying to keep parameters in check in newly setup system is never a good sign as a young system has to go through different stages and I believe by adding things you are only testing and playing with changes that leads to good and sometimes bad and unfortunately we don't like to spend more money than needed to,..

Bacteria in the water column could be removed easily by taking few steps.
Add filter floss for few days, lower the photo period of your new system, add good quality activated carbon and over skim, if a UV is available then use it at the rate by manufacturer rating. After few days passes do up to 30% water change.
By then you should be looking good and keep up with the activated carbon replacement as it get depleted faster than normal.

What I really find wrong is that so many people with new system try to ramp their lighting as high as possible rather that following a scheduled time or maybe thinking of what is in their system that requires lighting and how much.
Fish very little lighting, Softies a little more that what fish require, LPS almost 10% higher that your softies and so on,...But who wants to add LPS and SPS into a young system that is still in the developing stage.


I too have had a haze look in my system but that was due to over dosing on carbon (vinegar and Vodka) but cleared in a couple days with no water changes and no ill affect to the fish and corals, like mentioned above steps and clear up.

I highly believe in these items to have a successful reef display, oversized skimmer for future upgrades or if over skimming is ever needed.
Activated carbon, good quality always lasts longer,always check the MSDS sheets for your carbon to see the pore sizes and the surface area of it.
HC-GFO is a good choice to have but I wouldn't start with it from the get go as it gets costly too fast, Fozdown is a great choice for Phosphates removal I am sure tons of other product out there buts being specific to what I use.
Surface agitation is always required as it plays a big role with your fish health, coral growth and bacteria exchange gases.
Rock and or rubble is a must for bacteria growth as your system matures.

Really rambling now.

[jon.smolders]

Originally Posted by eli@fijireefrock.com

With new rocks that has just been cycled and placed into the main display (if recipes been followed correctly) 1st lighting should be at a slow start instead of a full blast as this will get different bacteria from the cycle to bloom.

if curing rock in any type of tub with no lighting and high temperature and adequate flow grows the type of bacteria that will not fully survive under full lighting and that produces your rock to cycle again in the main display (one of witch bacteria bloom in the water column)

What I really find wrong is that so many people with new system try to ramp their lighting as high as possible

I just threw the rock in the tank and let it cure with heat, good flow, and about 6-8 hrs of lighting a day, so maybe that's why the water-bourn bacteria bloomed? Because I didn't cycle it in the dark first?

Originally Posted by eli@fijireefrock.com

Bacteria in the water column could be removed easily by taking few steps.
Add filter floss for few days, lower the photo period of your new system, add good quality activated carbon and over skim, if a UV is available then use it at the rate by manufacturer rating. After few days passes do up to 30% water change. By then you should be looking good and keep up with the activated carbon replacement as it get depleted faster than normal.

I think I am going to try this before I buy a UV sterilizer.... set up some sort of filter floss or micron-water polisher in the display tank and see if that makes a difference. Maybe keep the lights off for 2 or 3 days as well and change the carbon more frequently.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by eli@fijireefrock.com

With new rocks that has just been cycled and placed into the main display (if recipes been followed correctly) 1st lighting should be at a slow start instead of a full blast as this will get different bacteria from the cycle to bloom.

if curing rock in any type of tub with no lighting and high temperature and adequate flow grows the type of bacteria that will not fully survive under full lighting and that produces your rock to cycle again in the main display (one of witch bacteria bloom in the water column)

OK Eli ... question for you

I have rock that I used in my old 330G from 10yrs ago that is stored in brute bins on side of my house that is now dead rock but it will have dead organics in it correct?

What would be the best and safest way to cure this rock for use in my new aquarium I am setting up?

cure in the dark in the brute container? if so then how?

or setup in the tank without livestock and short light cycle? if so then how?

I have heard there will be phosphate issues if bleach and vinegar are not used initially to clean them first ... if not bleach/vinegar then what is best?

so many theories so one definitive answer of what is proven to work would be much appreciated

Thanks

PS sorry for the hijack Jon

[Pike]

10 months and your rocks are bare, no coraline algae , nada!. theres no life in those rocks. Something is really wrong. Almost seems like what you have is lack of beneficial bacteria on your rocks thus the milky water. I would get a piece of better live rock with lots of life on it and some sand from a established tank or buy prodibio . It looks like you just put water in it yesterday.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by eli@fijireefrock.com

With new rocks that has just been cycled and placed into the main display (if recipes been followed correctly) 1st lighting should be at a slow start instead of a full blast as this will get different bacteria from the cycle to bloom.

if curing rock in any type of tub with no lighting and high temperature and adequate flow grows the type of bacteria that will not fully survive under full lighting and that produces your rock to cycle again in the main display (one of witch bacteria bloom in the water column)

I've never heard of this or experienced this. I did some Googling and couldn't find it mentioned.