Refugium with chaeto or bio-pellet reactor

[davej]

Do I need to take anything into consideration,in regards to vinegar dosing, with the fact that this is a new setup. Rock is well established and cycled.
Rock came from an established tank, and has been in spare tank for a couple of months. Sand will be brand new caribsea Fiji pink.
Once tank is settled I will be moving zoa's out of
RSM 130D.

On Another tangent might as well ask it here. I had fairly high phosphate in my existing tank. Upwards of 4ppm (Hanna meter) so I started running rowaphos to bring phosphate down. All of a sudden after bringing levels down I had an outbreak of green algae, never had a spec of it for almost a year. But was worried high phosphate was making zoa's unhappy. Phosphates were brought down to 0.02 over a couple of weeks, any insight as to why I had the algae outbreak?

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by davej

Do I need to take anything into consideration,in regards to vinegar dosing, with the fact that this is a new setup. Rock is well established and cycled.
Rock came from an established tank, and has been in spare tank for a couple of months. Sand will be brand new caribsea Fiji pink.
Once tank is settled I will be moving zoa's out of
RSM 130D.

On Another tangent might as well ask it here. I had fairly high phosphate in my existing tank. Upwards of 4ppm (Hanna meter) so I started running rowaphos to bring phosphate down. All of a sudden after bringing levels down I had an outbreak of green algae, never had a spec of it for almost a year. But was worried high phosphate was making zoa's unhappy. Phosphates were brought down to 0.02 over a couple of weeks, any insight as to why I had the algae outbreak?

if its a new setup i would wait until the first fish foods are added before starting. other than that youll be fineas c/n and p are limiting factors in bacterial growth.i

ts hard to say as for the algae , algae also uses nitrates as well and other things including iron.

bryopsisi has been know to do quite well in low po4 envioroments as well some other macro algaes.


not sure why at 4ppm you werent getting algae but i have known plenty of tanks with high po4 and no algae issues , the consensus is that is if algae isnt an issue then po4 isnt a huge concern that needs to be fixed overnight. in fact if po4 becomes too limiting then corals begin to suffer.

sudden drops or rises however in po4 tend to cause harm to hard corals and even zoanthids.

[davej]

Algae wasn't an issue but zoa's were clamping up and unhappy.
I was afraid that high phosphate was causing this. That was why I went down the road of reducing my phosphate levels. I never had a spec of visible green algae for a year. It was only after I lowered the levels to 0.04 levels that I had an outbreak of algae. I also added some new cuc to help out.

[reefmandan]

Something to consider as well is that certain algaes thrive under specific N:P ratios, and so if bringing the PO4 down brought that ratio to within an appropriate range for a certain algae, it has the potential to thrive.

[davej]

Originally Posted by reefwars

Now the chart above shows a 16 week dosing schedule , most people do it on a 4 week chart like this.

0.1 ml per gallon for 7 days(week 1 )
0.2 ml per gallon for 7 days (week 2)
0.3 ml per gallon for 7 days (week 3 )
0.4 ml per gallon for 7 days (week4)

Whether you decide to go above 0.4 ml per gallon will depend on your bioload and nutrients as well method removed.

Randy's personal guideline for vinegar is 15ml per 100g

Denny a question for you.
I have been dosing vinegar on the 4 week schedule like you suggested.
Really happy with how things are looking.
Have been at 0.4 ml for about 3-4 weeks so far.
Phosphates read near zero to zero but nitrates hover around 10 ppm.
Don't have a large bio load and I think I feed fairly light.
Running an omega 150 for a skimmer and cant seem to get a good dark skimmate out of it always seems to skim fairly wet weak tea colored fluid.
Could this be a factor?
Could it just be too much skimmer for my setup?
Should I bump the vinegar up a little more?
What level do you settle in at on a daily basis?
Is it the 0.4 or different?

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by davej

Denny a question for you.
I have been dosing vinegar on the 4 week schedule like you suggested.
Really happy with how things are looking.
Have been at 0.4 ml for about 3-4 weeks so far.
Phosphates read near zero to zero but nitrates hover around 10 ppm.
Don't have a large bio load and I think I feed fairly light.
Running an omega 150 for a skimmer and cant seem to get a good dark skimmate out of it always seems to skim fairly wet weak tea colored fluid.
Could this be a factor?
Could it just be too much skimmer for my setup?
Should I bump the vinegar up a little more?
What level do you settle in at on a daily basis?
Is it the 0.4 or different?

If there's no signs of stress then you can go higher for sure , once nitrates drop to zero you can always slowly cut back , just watch your ph and if you need to spread your dose out.

If phosphates are too low you can always feed a little more or cut out gfo if running it

Your skimmer is most likely a factor , skimmate should be dark almost black you'll know when it's working , I don't think that skimmer is overpowered fwiw but still you should be able to tune it to do it so there's an issue there IMO .

Keep an eye out for the signs of too much like white films on the glass or cloudy water and keep an eye on your livestock

I've made it to 1ml per gallon on setups and on average about 0.4 ml per gallon so the numbers can vary from system to system but you can fine tune it and it's a little forgiving

Once you find your mainatance dose it's pretty set and forget

[davej]

Originally Posted by reefwars

If there's no signs of stress then you can go higher for sure , once nitrates drop to zero you can always slowly cut back , just watch your ph and if you need to spread your dose out.

If phosphates are too low you can always feed a little more or cut out gfo if running it

Your skimmer is most likely a factor , skimmate should be dark almost black you'll know when it's working , I don't think that skimmer is overpowered fwiw but still you should be able to tune it to do it so there's an issue there IMO .

Keep an eye out for the signs of too much like white films on the glass or cloudy water and keep an eye on your livestock

I've made it to 1ml per gallon on setups and on average about 0.4 ml per gallon so the numbers can vary from system to system but you can fine tune it and it's a little forgiving

Once you find your mainatance dose it's pretty set and forget

Ok cool, just bumped it up to .5 to see how it goes
I am dosing over a 5 hour period with 10 equal doses, definitely have some white film in the sump where it is being dosed but main tank and water still nice and clear. will work on skimmer output

[reefaddik]

Here is a couple pics of my refugium set up in my basement below my display. It's the way to go hands down.

[hfp75]

Do both... put the refugium before the pellet reactor. that way there is nutrients for the algaes (from the nutrient rich return tank water)... then run it through a biopellet reactor and aim the return from the reactor to the intake of the skimmer. DONE!

This way you will have some chaeto/caulerpa and all the critters that are good - not practical to export all the nutrients this way but a few. Use the Pellet reactor to get rid of the bulk of the nutrients... probably leaving a bit of PO4 and then in the last chamber run a small pump 300 gph through a TLF150 with Rowa (just gate it back for the right flow)..... your return water (to the tank) should be very clean....

Start with 1/2 of what is recommended for the biopellets and see what happens to your nutrient levels (give it a few weeks for bacteria to grow).... remember that some NO3 and PO4 is not bad.... I keep my NO3 @ < 10 (average 5) and my PO4 at <.1

I am using this method... everything is happy and I dont need to fuss with dosing anything.... super easy and simple - reactor is always running. Bacteria grows & dies off of the pellets as nutrients allow, it is like a shock absorber.... and you don't need to mess with it.... it just runs - with vodka and sugar you are always messing with the dosing and it can be a PITA...

Just my opinion....

[trilinearmipmap]

Biopellets = flavour of the week a few years ago. I have read enough tales of disaster with biopellets. Might work for some, too complicated and expensive for me.

The combination of skimmer + fuge has worked well for years for many including myself. Multiple benefits of a system like this. Low to no cost. Less potential for disaster. Pods = extra benefit.

To keep a reef long term you need a low maintenance low-worry solution. Due to extreme workload I have not even looked in my bucket fuge for several months. A couple of days ago removed a huge clump (1/2) of the chaeto. Takes care of itself.

Anyway just my opinion.