TM balling webinar synopsis

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

So you argue about spending on decent salts but buy an expensive doser to dose those cheap salts to run your tank?

I argue about whether a "brand" name salt is better or necessary vs. food grade etc. Using "lab grade" salts is, in my opinion, a marketing exercise as most super high purity lab grade chemicals are intended for very precise uses such as analytical chemistry work where a 0.05% deviation in purity can throw your results off. We don't need that level of precision or purity for our uses. If I would be comfortable putting it on or in my own body, I'm comfortable putting it in my tank. I'm not saying the TM salts are bad, just that for some people, other more affordable options also exist and can work just as well. Saving money on salts or other items where I can let's me apply that to the equipment budget for a quality doser or skimmer etc.

[Aqua-Digital]

The saving once you have gone to all that effort will be very little if any and the salt is the lifeblood to your corals, for me not a risk to take.

Yes of course branded salts are a marketing product, just as the salts you buy are also. The name does not put the price up, whats in it and whats gone into it to make it balanced for you does.

[Ron99]

Well, I don't have time to run a spreadsheet and financial analysis right now but from what I've seen of many (not all, but many) additives and supplements, the costs add up to a great deal over time and the savings can likewise add up over time.

As for the whole issue of balanced dosing, I'm not disputing the principal but I will also suggest that I don't think it's even possible to completely "balance" your dosing as each system will be different depending on size, livestock, livestock types and various rates of consumption of a wide range of different elements by different types of corals or algae or clams etc.

Just my thoughts on it all. Plenty of people over the years seem to get by perfectly well and have stunning reef tanks with nothing more than regular water changes and perhaps regular two or three part dosing or running a calcium reactor etc.

[Aqua-Digital]

All comes down to if you want to do it right as nature intends or try and bend the rules to suit a budget. If you want to do it "naturally" right then this system offers that for you.

The battle of a reefer is chemistry if we can help simplify this and take away the risk factors then I believe the product is worth it.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

All comes down to if you want to do it right as nature intends or try and bend the rules to suit a budget. If you want to do it "naturally" right then this system offers that for you.

The battle of a reefer is chemistry if we can help simplify this and take away the risk factors then I believe the product is worth it.

I guess this is where I have a bit of a problem when you make the implication that this is the "right" way and other ways are not "right". As I've been trying to say, there are many ways to dose and maintain tank chemistry and claiming that one is right and the others aren't is a bit bold IMO. Plenty of people have stunning tanks using other methods or products as well. The TM ones may be good but so can others too. That's my point.

And I think that tanks may vary in their requirements for different trace elements depending on their livestock. For example, someone growing some ornamental macro algae or a fuge full of macro algae may need to dose more iron or iodine than someone not. And even that is questionable. Here's a great write up by Randy Holmes-Farley on trace element dosing:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/

[Aqua-Digital]

Even the 3 part system that is talked about on reefkeeping now advocates the use of NACL free salt, interesting the recent change. However the NACL free you can get will not have all the trace elements found in your sea salt mix.

This is not about adding extra elements as pointed out above its about making a balance and to do that you have to replicate everything that is in your sea salt mix minus the sodium chloride.

why minus the sodium chloride?...... because you bi product of your 2 part dosing is sodium chloride. its already there free swimming looking for the NACL to bind to, the added benefit of the Tropic marin system is that the NACL also comes with the same amount of trace elements in your salt mix and in doing so constantly re vitalizes your tank with them.

The whole point of the system is about balance, not about trace elements that are added as an '"addition" to your system.

Your are re balancing the basics, not the complexes.

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

Even the 3 part system that is talked about on reefkeeping now advocates the use of NACL free salt, interesting the recent change. However the NACL free you can get will not have all the trace elements found in your sea salt mix.

This is not about adding extra elements as pointed out above its about making a balance and to do that you have to replicate everything that is in your sea salt mix minus the sodium chloride.

why minus the sodium chloride?...... because you bi product of your 2 part dosing is sodium chloride. its already there free swimming looking for the NACL to bind to, the added benefit of the Tropic marin system is that the NACL also comes with the same amount of trace elements in your salt mix and in doing so constantly re vitalizes your tank with them.

The whole point of the system is about balance, not about trace elements that are added as an '"addition" to your system.

Your are re balancing the basics, not the complexes.

I think I made it clear that I understand the proposition of the "balanced" dosing that Dr. Balling proposes. That's not the question. I simply wonder if there's really a need to do so beyond simple water changes and possibly dosing for CA, Alk and Mg if need be. Ca and Alk are the two big ones that can potentially cause problems. The rest not so much unless something is way out of whack.

Has Dr. Balling done any analysis in reef tanks to measure the consumption rates of all the other minor and trace elements to determine what dosing is required of them? Can he/you provide that data or a link to it?