WHAT IS A CORPORATION?

[MitchM]

Originally Posted by reefermadness

Yes because our economies and monetary system is perfect and infallible. They definitely should never be scrutinized. The shenanigans (yes I said it) of Wallstreet is just part of the perfection.

If kids/students can't listen to different ideas and arguments and look on them objectively, we'll that is a shame. Also if we can't think and work on improvements to systems (monetary system being one), that is so closed minded and also sad.

Personally I really like the Zeitgeist films (there are 3). I don't agree with everything in them but they are eye openers for sure. They cover a lot of topics, like mental health, religion, war and are probably only 25% about the monetary system.

A good documentary to watch about the crash of 2008 and subsequent recession is inside job. It does a good job of laying out the sicking financial moves that lead to one of worst market declines in history. In October '08 the head of the International Monetary Fund/IMF warned that the world financial system was teetering on the "brink of systemic meltdown.

I'm not personally against any of this stuff but even if you think something is great you can still try to objectively look at the flaws and think of improvements. I love myself but sometimes I think about how I can be a better person. Then I grab a beer

I didn't say the system was perfect, of course is is not. That's why we need more education about the systems that are currently in place.

I am also neither closed minded or sad, quite the opposite.

In order to view or discuss conspiracy stories, one should have a good understanding of the subject beforehand and a sophistication that allows for an objective understanding of who the presenter is. The "artist" or "activist" does have an agenda. I would prefer to see a respected investigative journalist first dig up some actual facts. Otherwise it's basically just campfire talking points.

Also, you can be sure that the presenter has a few corporations of their own, in order to maximize profits from the product that they're selling.

I'm also not naive.

[reefermadness]

Originally Posted by MitchM

I didn't say the system was perfect, of course is is not. That's why we need more education about the systems that are currently in place.

I am also neither closed minded or sad, quite the opposite.

In order to view or discuss conspiracy stories, one should have a good understanding of the subject beforehand and a sophistication that allows for an objective understanding of who the presenter is. The "artist" or "activist" does have an agenda. I would prefer to see a respected investigative journalist first dig up some actual facts. Otherwise it's basically just campfire talking points.

Also, you can be sure that the presenter has a few corporations of their own, in order to maximize profits from the product that they're selling.

I'm also not naive.

Sorry I'm not saying your are sad or close minded in general but to not even allow yourself to consider the possibility of truth or partial truth in at least some of his arguments is. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and Im sure some of his arguments are made out of thin air but some hold truth as well, its just to get you thinking. Waiting for main stream media to shed light on some of these issues is not a good idea either, IMO the state of media today is pretty bad. Do you really think what the "trusted media" feeds us today is fool proof and 100% true?

I also never said you were naive.

[MitchM]

Originally Posted by reefermadness

... Waiting for main stream media to shed light on some of these issues is not a good idea either, IMO the state of media today is pretty bad. Do you really think what the "trusted media" feeds us today is fool proof and 100% true?...

In my opinion, the media are just as guilty as politicians.
The media will scare people to sell their stories and politicians will scare people to get votes.
The best way to combat that fear is education and to call them on things that are just not true.
That is all.

[lastlight]

[FitoPharmer]

I agree with may of the points being made, and disagree with many. Some things that I find to be constantly obstructing a more productive and more sustainable humanity seem to be unmentioned.
I don't think anyone mentioned the super rich using tax havens, which exist just as much in the USA and in Canada. This is an effective strategy for dodging taxes that is not an option to anyone making anything under several million per year.
For example if you use an iphone: http://www.forbes.com/sites/leeshepp...e-avoid-taxes/

I totally have to agree with any negative sentiment around corporate money in politics. Political donations made by corporations are almost never, if ever, neutral and once again take away from the idea of politics creating what is best for the people of the country and reinforces the idea of doing what is best for their corporate sponsor so they can make lots of money and donate again next election cycle.

One idea I had to try and rectify this system is to peg all MP's , MLA's, senators, the PM, and other non essential representatives of the people of Canada to the average Canadians wage and give them a pension that also is equal to the average private market compensation. Its really not that hard for me to imagine an almost overnight 360 in Canadian politics after something like that was implemented. Obviously this is not a prefect solution but it just might be better then what we do now putting out elected officials into the top 20% of income earners in Canada and wondering why 80% of us end up slowly loosing what made Canada and America so great in the first place.

One point that was made I don't think I could ever agree with is money being evil. Money might be able to be used for evil, but I think it comes back to the guns don't kill people, people kill people argument in a heck of a hurry. The best definition for money I have ever heard, and I cannot logically disprove this in my mind, is a unit to represent and facilitate the transfer of energy. I think anyone on this message board would be able to agree from their own hobby experience that the transfer of energy in biological systems is a basic fundamental for any type of biological system to work. Human society being a heavily biologically rooted system also requires energy transfers to be made at an incredible pace, especially in the fast world of the internet.The transfer of energy itself is neutral, however I will agree that energy itself can be used for a multitude of negative effects on society. This positive or negative effect is almost totally depended on the circumstances and mind frame of the people or person conducting where and how energy flows and not in the conducting system its self.
In my mind if the logical continuation of the all money is bad because you can do bad things with it argument is: Now all stores are bad because some of them sell bullets sometimes and sometimes bullets kill people.
So just remeber money as we know it is a relatively new system to humanity and our ancestors, and like any type of evolution just because it starts out ridiculous and inefficient, that does not mean in any way it is a bad idea.
Dry and boring to most I really enjoyed listening to Friedrich A. Hayek discuss his ideas about economics.
The Life & Thought of Friedrich Hayek

Economics a very long and confusing subject and to steal a line from Jon Stewart if you read a few things about economics and make blankets statements like "money is bad" that says much more about the kind of person you are then ever will about the point you are really trying to get across.

I really enjoyed Bill Gates rules. Thank you for sharing.

One point that I either missed or was simply missing is the strange graduated income tax that exists now. I knew about this subject before but the one thing that really cemented this idea in my head was Rich dad poor dad's Robert T. Kiyosaki talking about the income tax structure in our country. I think Jon Stewart also sums it up best when he asks is investment and corporate income worth more to our countries prosperity then normal manual labor? If so lower the corporate tax rate and keep capitol gains taxes low, but it comes at a very heavy cost of investment that could have otherwise come from the pockets of normal every day schmoes like me.

Now to something completely off topic and positive:
This is a amazing desertification reversal projects
Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change

http://www.savoryinstitute.com/

And I thought I would add in this weird debate. When i read the title the first time I just said WTF?!?!? and afterwards was very surprised by the content:
How Much Government Is Necessary?" Debate - Part 1

More thinking positive:
http://www.corbettreport.com/episode...ng-anastrophe/

[reefermadness]

Originally Posted by lastlight

[Reef_Geek]