Ich aftermath... what to do now?

[jorjef]

^^^ Wisers slow clap for mrhasan ^^^^^

[fishytime]

here's food for thought.....wildlife biologists have long known that a certain percentage of caught and released game fish die from lactic acid build up due to the stress of being caught.....why are our fish any different?.....I QTed for a while and had no better results than just putting the new fish in the display.....every time we put a net to our fish we cause lactic acid build up that could prove to be fatal.....I feel that playing musical tanks with a fish is putting it through more than is necessary......if you are observant and make good decisions buying your fish you will greatly lessen the chance of introducing something nasty....

[asylumdown]

Originally Posted by fishytime

here's food for thought.....wildlife biologists have long known that a certain percentage of caught and released game fish die from lactic acid build up due to the stress of being caught.....why are our fish any different?.....I QTed for a while and had no better results than just putting the new fish in the display.....every time we put a net to our fish we cause lactic acid build up that could prove to be fatal.....I feel that playing musical tanks with a fish is putting it through more than is necessary......if you are observant and make good decisions buying your fish you will greatly lessen the chance of introducing something nasty....

I know the idea seems stressful, but the fish that die from lactic acid build up in sport or commercial fishing go through a significantly more acutely traumatic capture process than what fish in a properly designed quarantine procedure will ever experience - either being smothered half to death in a huge drag net where they are trapped for hours trying to escape, or are hooked through the mouth and pulled from the water fighting the line with every ounce of strength they have for as long as possible. Scooping fish up quickly with a net (or better yet a tupperware container with holes drilled in the bottom) isn't really comparable, even if you're doing the tank transfer method and are doing it every few days. Not QTing is a method that works fine until it doesn't, and when it doesn't the amount of temporary stress your fish were spared by not QTing them becomes a moot point because they're dead. I would never criticize someone for not doing it because it's an annoying and time consuming process (I never used to), and if you're lucky it works fine. But I also understand how quickly one can become a quarantine convert when you've had a near tank wipe-out due to parasites.

[Reef Pilot]

If you don't quarantine new fish, you are actually putting them through more stress, I believe. Besides the disease prevention, while in the QT new fish have a chance to be acclimatized to your DT water (prior to the final transfer) and new foods. They then have a chance to become healthy and strong before going into your DT.

Otherwise, if thrown into the DT immediately, they may have to face hostile existing tank inhabitants (like my yellow tang) while in a weakened state, and not used to eating the new foods. If that isn't stress for a fish (and the aquarist watching all this), I don't know what is.

Moving existing stock from an infected DT to a QT is a whole different story, though. My problem would be just in trying to catch them. So yes, I would first try to feed them well and hope their health and immune system carry them through.

But the real solution, which I keep preaching, is prevention, by QT'ing new fish. That is the best for new fish, and for protecting your DT. And it is so easy, which is why I don't readily accept lame excuses for not doing it. I have a 30g QT running all the time, with a canister filter, and water changes are done using DT waste water (from changes), so it costs me next to nothing to keep running and available when I need it. And I use it a lot, actually, sometimes for new shrimp and corals, too (no hypo for them, of course). It is a lot more work to maintain a refugium, actually, as I have done that, too.

Not QTing new fish is like playing Russian roulette with their lives. 5 out of 6 times (reality is more like 50/50 though), they might get away with it. But when they don't, the fish have to suffer (and be stressed) with ich. I just don't think that is very responsible, IMO.

[fishytime]

Originally Posted by asylumdown

I know the idea seems stressful, but the fish that die from lactic acid build up in sport or commercial fishing go through a significantly more acutely traumatic capture process than what fish in a properly designed quarantine procedure will ever experience - either being smothered half to death in a huge drag net where they are trapped for hours trying to escape, or are hooked through the mouth and pulled from the water fighting the line with every ounce of strength they have for as long as possible. Scooping fish up quickly with a net (or better yet a tupperware container with holes drilled in the bottom) isn't really comparable, even if you're doing the tank transfer method and are doing it every few days. Not QTing is a method that works fine until it doesn't, and when it doesn't the amount of temporary stress your fish were spared by not QTing them becomes a moot point because they're dead. I would never criticize someone for not doing it because it's an annoying and time consuming process (I never used to), and if you're lucky it works fine. But I also understand how quickly one can become a quarantine convert when you've had a near tank wipe-out due to parasites.

so you dont think that chasing a fish around a glass box with a net for a few minutes or for one minute several times in a couple weeks is stressfull to the fish?....I think you are vastly underestimating it, or perhaps are in denial about what we put our fish through....many game fish are hooked and released in less than a minute and still die from LA build up....how is that any different?....just cause there is no hook involved?

[mseepman]

You mean I'm not supposed to use a hook to catch the fish in my aquarium? I knew something wasn't right in my methods.

[fishytime]

Originally Posted by mseepman

You mean I'm not supposed to use a hook to catch the fish in my aquarium? I knew something wasn't right in my methods.

LOL.....Ive done it before, it works

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by mseepman

You mean I'm not supposed to use a hook to catch the fish in my aquarium? I knew something wasn't right in my methods.

Using hook is sooooooooo out of style. I believe this is more effective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJEG_5ZSpOc

[asylumdown]

Originally Posted by mseepman

You mean I'm not supposed to use a hook to catch the fish in my aquarium? I knew something wasn't right in my methods.

This is exactly how I got the last fish I removed from my tank out. Harlequin tusk fish was too smart for a trap, but not too smart for a piece of scallop dangling on the end of a very small hook...

[daniella3d]

I cought a wrasse and a foxface with a small hook and they both survived just fine. If that whole thing about stressed fish dying would be true, no fish would ever reach our tanks. Ever tried to catch a wrasse from a reef tank? took me 3 minutes with a hook.

After all, most of them are cought with nets in the ocean, put in small buckets for days, sometimes weeks, then shipped for many hours in small bags.

If they survive that then the only thing that can kill them are parasites on their gills and skin, or attack from other agressive fish.

Originally Posted by fishytime

so you dont think that chasing a fish around a glass box with a net for a few minutes or for one minute several times in a couple weeks is stressfull to the fish?....I think you are vastly underestimating it, or perhaps are in denial about what we put our fish through....many game fish are hooked and released in less than a minute and still die from LA build up....how is that any different?....just cause there is no hook involved?