Random Thought Thread

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Coralgurl

We all will be sitting down this weekend to discuss with him this situation. Yesterday was not the time to do it as we basically pulled an all nighter, we're tired and grumpy. At this point he has lost his most important things and won't be getting them back anytime soon. I suggested an apology to the victim, which his dad agrees should be done, but he's been ordered to not have any contact until the court date in December.

He has already acknowledged being where he was and the others involved always leads to trouble and he's not going to hang out there anymore. His mom is looking into youth counseling programs to get him some help with his self esteem issues. Remarkably, he received a progress report from school yesterday and has pulled his marks from mid 70s to mid 80s in the last month.

Is this the first time he's gotten into trouble? No. He averages 3 suspensions a year from school for fighting. 2 years ago he got caught tagging a transformer, this was a bylaw offense so he was issued a fine and court date, community service was the punishment, plus we implemented punishment at home.

Believe me, I have had my say about what I think should be happening over the years. Hopefully there's some changes. If I didn't care and wasn't supportive, I wouldn't be asking for advice.

I was a bit of a bad ass growing up. From stealing cars to drugs. I never was caught but all my friends were. Ill tell you. For me it was looking to belong. I grew up poor in a rich town. I was bullied and in turn took friends that did thing as stated. Not to mention a few assult charges. As soon as I ditched these friends Iand found more constructive ways to spend my time. I fish and hunt have a live for wood working and gardening.
I grew up great and have a positive life. I think IMO the best way to deal with rebèllion is to find the source which is probably his friends. If its about the rush and thrill of being bad maybe activities like cadets would be a good choice. Along with discipline I was thrilled to drive tanks, replell out of a helicopter in the bush on a survival trek. Or firing off assault rifles at a range

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by jorjef

Starting in a normal talking tone, escalating volume and intensity, if they are arguing back. You need to drive the point home and ultimately if he refuses to understand smash something of his right in front of him. He will soon understand as a final insult make him clean it up. This sounds like it may border on mental cruelty but if you guys are loving and supportive parents the other 99 percent of the time it will be a good reminder for him if he decides to make another bad decision anytime soon.

Sorry, to me that's ridiculous. If he starts arguing, you lower your tone. Introduce some uncomfortable silence. Escalating the situation with him is just going to go from bad to worse. Then you smash something?? Seriously? The example we're trying to set as parents is yell louder than kid and smash stuff? Wow.
Now I can see where you think this might work, perhaps a TV show portrayed it as a good strategy. I tried this once 10 years ago. My child then punched me in the face, ran away from home and became addicted to meth. I'm going to suggest that the strategy was not overly successful. You will not yell a teenager into submission.
This kid needs direction. Work with him to decide, together, the best approach to eliminate the behaviour. See what he thinks might work, once he's honestly agreeing it's poor behaviour. If he likes to fight, maybe organized fighting. Put him in some fight training, with the rule that fighting happens at class or in the ring. Outside the ring has consequences. Help him build goals that he sees as important, so that achieving the goal outweighs the choices to behave poorly. Sit down and talk to him as a person, and find out what drives this from his point of view. So many better options than yelling him into submission.

My random thought for the day..

[Proteus]

Jorjef. That's the most unreasonable and un constructive way to handle a situation. If you want a child to act like a adult then you can't act like a child.

All kids want is to understood and I think most of us forget what it was like to be fifteen. I agree with fight training such as boxing. Great workout and dicipline. As long as he understands the responsibility that comes with trained hands

I once called my mother a few choice names out of rebellion and my dad treated me like a adult with adult dicipline. Haha he kicked my ass some feirce. Which I needed. I fought a lot growing up and my half crippled dad was the only person who put me into submission. I was cocky thinking I was invincible. I found out itherwise and in the long run I'm glad he did what he did. I believe in tough love but a parent needs to find the root of the problem

[jorjef]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Sorry, to me that's ridiculous. If he starts arguing, you lower your tone. Introduce some uncomfortable silence. Escalating the situation with him is just going to go from bad to worse. Then you smash something?? Seriously? The example we're trying to set as parents is yell louder than kid and smash stuff? Wow.
Now I can see where you think this might work, perhaps a TV show portrayed it as a good strategy. I tried this once 10 years ago. My child then punched me in the face, ran away from home and became addicted to meth. I'm going to suggest that the strategy was not overly successful. You will not yell a teenager into submission.
This kid needs direction. Work with him to decide, together, the best approach to eliminate the behaviour. See what he thinks might work, once he's honestly agreeing it's poor behaviour. If he likes to fight, maybe organized fighting. Put him in some fight training, with the rule that fighting happens at class or in the ring. Outside the ring has consequences. Help him build goals that he sees as important, so that achieving the goal outweighs the choices to behave poorly. Sit down and talk to him as a person, and find out what drives this from his point of view. So many better options than yelling him into submission.

My random thought for the day..

To each his own, the tail doesn't wag the dog in my house. I set the rules, i enforce the rules and at the end any disiplinary actions a hug and a honest I love you always follows. Understand that with a healthy respect for authority yelling into submission works. The fact that the boy seems to have that is why I suggested it. But your right this technique can't start in the teen years where that respect doesn't exist.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by jorjef

To each his own, the tail doesn't wag the dog in my house..

This isn't a dog/tail issue, this is a relationship building issue. The kid has some issues that need to be dealt with in a mature fashion, not by fear because you're bigger or louder. Respect is earned through actions, not power.

[Reef Pilot]

Best thing that happened to our boy at 15, was getting a job at MacDonald's. Changed his direction and life completely. He met new friends, kept busy, did well at school (ended up getting a scholorship), and now has a great career with a couple kids of his own.

Unfortunately, despite the best efforts of parents, boys (and girls too) are most vulnerable at that age. Hormones and who your friends are tend to rule. Luckily, the vast majority survive just fine, and turn out well. I think the trick is to keep good communication (listening and trust) with your kid, and try to channel their energy into positive activities.

I strongly believe (I learned this in business, too) that positive reinforcement (look for things that he is successful at) is more effective than strict discipline. The latter might work for a while, but to be really successful (and have fun) in life, you have to find your own way, and learn to make good decisions, which includes seeking the input of others.

[kien]

Originally Posted by jorjef

Sounds like one bad decision, and if that's all it is hopefully the discipline dished out will realign his thinking. If you and your other don't feel it's enough take away the most important thing he has, a car, video games, sports etc. It doesn't need to be forever but make it sting. I always drive home big time and I mean big time reversing the situation, put him in the victims shoes and talk about how this has effected the victim. Starting in a normal talking tone, escalating volume and intensity, if they are arguing back. You need to drive the point home and ultimately if he refuses to understand smash something of his right in front of him. He will soon understand as a final insult make him clean it up. This sounds like it may border on mental cruelty but if you guys are loving and supportive parents the other 99 percent of the time it will be a good reminder for him if he decides to make another bad decision anytime soon.

Now if there was any doubt in anyone's mind before this I'm sure it will confirm to them that yes I am a little nuts

This is actually how my dad raised me. He was very hot headed. My mom was the complete opposite. Very calm and understanding. Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), my dad dished out the discipline, military style. Needless to say, I learned all manner of respect for him and for anyone that I happened to have wronged, very quickly. And trust me, I hung out with some bad apples. Some of them arrested for B&Es, gang violence, etc. I was in a few situations where I could have easily been involved. Hey, let's go break into this house! Ya, that does sound kinda fun.. but wait.. my dad would rip me a new one. Hmm.. I think I'll pass.

Having said all that, I am now in my dad's situation and having to teach respect and discipline to my children. I think that my principles are similar to his, but my approach and methods are not the same. I won't hit him or break his stuff but I let him know very sternly that what he did was wrong and he needs to be disciplined. At this point I can get away with removing things that he cherishes like his favourite toys and foods and activities. This always does the trick. Who knows, as he grows up things may change :-)

[Ross]

Originally Posted by jorjef

To each his own, the tail doesn't wag the dog in my house. I set the rules, i enforce the rules and at the end any disiplinary actions a hug and a honest I love you always follows. Understand that with a healthy respect for authority yelling into submission works. The fact that the boy seems to have that is why I suggested it. But your right this technique can't start in the teen years where that respect doesn't exist.

I'd hate to see how you deal with issues with an equal like a spouse.
Yell louder, Smash more valuable stuff, make them clean up the bigger, more expensive mess faster?
Take their car away or smash it into a wall?

You are RAISING a child into an equal, not forcing them into submission for life. I know a few people that grew up in such an manor, and they are afraid to ever speak there mind, challenge authority, or make hard decisions that have consequences, without someone guiding them all the time.

[jorjef]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

This isn't a dog/tail issue, this is a relationship building issue. The kid has some issues that need to be dealt with in a mature fashion, not by fear because you're bigger or louder. Respect is earned through actions, not power.

Okay it's neither a dog and tail or relationship building issue. It was mentioned that he engages in home life and the family but it's outside the house where things head south. In my house respect is gained because at the end there is a hug and I love you. Not just a rant. then walk away and silent treatment.The calm discussion comes after the fact but there needs to be only one person in authority and control and it needs to be clear who that is. I have two boys 19 and 11 and I'm very proud of them but they know dad rules the roost. Oldest doesn't smoke, do drugs and drinks very rarely, and believe me I would know I'm was a very seasoned expert in all areas when I was a teenager. My youngest had me welling up after he was awarded his black belt in Tae kwon do this summer.

[jorjef]

Originally Posted by Ross

I'd hate to see how you deal with issues with an equal like a spouce.
Yell louder, Smash more valuable stuff, make them clean up the bigger, more expensive mess faster?
Take their car away or smash it into a wall?

You are RAISING a child into an equal, not forcing them into submission for life. I know a few people that grew up in such an manor, and they are afraid to ever speak there mind, challenge authority, or make hard decisions that have consequences, without someone guiding them all the time.

lol ah no, the spouse garners huge respect and gets it, she would be gone otherwise. I'm not an insane ranting maniac all the time.