Cleaner Wrasse??

[jtbadco]

As expected completely missed the point,....

my point is that all the fish you have, regardless of how much research you did, would be better off in the wild. So you are no better than anyone else.

And like I said, I don't disagree with the point you are making so save your expert testimony.

[kole]

Watching one swim around my tank now. Entertaining little fish been in there over a year now. I had a pair in my last tank for several years. Always kept them with larger fish so they can display or attempt there natural cleaning habits.

[windcoast reefs]

Everybody has an opinion on these fish, but the article that you highlighted was published many years ago and are very outdated. Most of the references are from the 70s through early 90's. The shipping methods were slower, cyanide was still used for capturing them and people didn't understand what the needs of the fish are. That said all fish are better off in the ocean. Many fish have special requirement, like leopard wrasses, copperband butterfly's, dragonettes, even a number of tangs, but so many people buy them without complaints. I really don't like to see these fish in the pet shop and hate it when they sell them to new aquarists. But there really isn't anything I can do myself to help.

[Rogue951]

I've had a few in different tanks over the years and they've always done extremely well.
eat like pigs with no effort to train them to eat.
even pick at my arm when im doing stuff in the tank.
I'd say the real issue is taking them away from their cleaning duties in the wild and less so that they're hard to keep.

[daniella3d]

Mine is fat as can be. I have it for about 4 months now and he's grown a lot and he is getting fat. The thing is, I feed it live white worms and he loves thoses. I think that's what really keep him healthy and fat.

He's in top shape and eats anything. I feed it mysis which he has problem eating but eats some bits, I also feed it frozen cyclopeeze, caplan eggs (fish roe) and live white worms. With this diet he has grown quite a bit in a few months and has keep gaining weight.

I feed it twice per day. None of my fish need it because they don't have any parasite and don't accept being cleaned by it, but he's got enough good food it seems.

Originally Posted by jtbadco

I'm afraid I may have done the same thing. I saw one is a friend reef and bought one for mine. He eats like crazy...I feed twice a day, but he keeps getting skinnier.

[daniella3d]

Absolutely not true. I don't know on what basis you say this, but either you tried one and failed so you think that one must be lucky to keep a cleaner wrasse alive, or you never tried so you don't even speak from experience.

I know plenty of people who have them for a long time. Mine is perfectly healthy and active and I don,t have any fish he can clean anyway. He simply eats good food like a little pig.

You are giving the wrong impresson that these fish are nearly impossible to keep, but it's simply not true. Same thing have been said from the copperband butterfly yet mine is fat and healthy and has been in my tank for a year and half now.

Originally Posted by naesco

The chances of a cleaner wrasse surviving more than a week or two are almost nil.

Reefers who are lucky enough to have one survive for a longer time post though, giving the impression that is it is ok to buy them.

It is not ok to buy them. They should be left in the ocean doing the great job they do cleaning other fish that we buy that do survive.

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

Absolutely not true. I don't know on what basis you say this, but either you tried one and failed so you think that one must be lucky to keep a cleaner wrasse alive, or you never tried so you don't even speak from experience.

Naesco. This is the same guy that posts regularly to tell people not to keep Copperbands in captivity. When questioned if he ever had one personally, he admitted buying one when he first started out in the hobby and not knowing how to properly take care of it. Of course it died on him. So just because he was irresponsible, now he thinks no one should be keeping them.

Cleaner wrasse may indeed be difficult (or not) to keep in captivity. But it would be nice if we had a more constructive discussion about why they die early, and how to keep them successfully.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Naesco. This is the same guy that posts regularly to tell people not to keep Copperbands in captivity. When questioned if he ever had one personally, he admitted buying one when he first started out in the hobby and not knowing how to properly take care of it. Of course it died on him. So just because he was irresponsible, now he thinks no one should be keeping them.

I would have to go ahead and agree with Naesco, although sending the message a little more diplomatically would likely result in more positive responses.

Cleaner wrasse may indeed be difficult (or not) to keep in captivity. But it would be nice if we had a more constructive discussion about why they die early, and how to keep them successfully.

Cleaner Wrasse (and Copperband Butterflies, among many other fish) really are difficult to keep in captivity. Some people do have success even though most appear not to do anything extraordinary to keep these fish. A constructive discussion on how to keep these fish would be great...it's just too bad we don't yet know.

Once upon a time, Green Mandarins used to be difficult to keep, and still are for those who don't take their requirements into consideration. We do now know what the requirements are, and likely we will eventually figure this out with many of the species that are currently difficult to keep.

Putting these "typically difficult to keep" fish in the hands of uneducated, inexperienced, or careless reefkeepers is really sad. When you've been around forums for a long time it gets tiring to read repetitive threads like, "What's wrong with my CBB?".

On the topic of cyanide, it is still used in many countries. CORAL Magazine just published an article highlighting a new Cyanide Test. Previously, the only tests available required sacrifice of the test fish, so this new test is groundbreaking.

Originally Posted by Ret Talbot

Unlike other cyanide detection tests, the new methodology provides for rapid detection of cyanide by testing the water in which the animal is being held. The procedure outlined in the paper utilizes an optical fiber sensor capable of detecting trace levels of Thiocyanate anion in seawater.

Since nearly 80 percent of all cyanide entering an organism is converted to Thiocyanate anion and excreted in urine, this procedure allows for quick, non-invasive screening for cyanide by simply testing the holding water. Because saltwater fishes retain Thiocyanate anion for long periods subsequent to the initial cyanide poisoning, this cyanide detection method can be used successfully throughout the supply chain.

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/cont...t-game-changer

[mws]

Originally Posted by jtbadco

As expected completely missed the point,....

my point is that all the fish you have, regardless of how much research you did, would be better off in the wild. So you are no better than anyone else.

And like I said, I don't disagree with the point you are making so save your expert testimony.

+1 ON THIS ONE.
Came back from snorkelling in Hawaii and must say, any size tank we have in our homes is still a bath tub.
I do feel very guilty every time I look at my fish, regardless of pristine maintenance of my tank. All the fish except the once we bred in captivity, are better off in a ocean.
Cleaner wrasse is not an exception, like any other fish. I had mine for over a year and he is fat and eats everything, but he doesn't clean fish anymore.

I had seeing thousands of different species of tangs in one spot what graze like cows, non stop.
My tangs don't touch rock anymore, waiting for there nori sheet twice a day.

Think one of those traveling zoos, where animals adapt and survive in 8X8 cages for years.

Suppliers will not stop catching cleaner wrasse if we stop buying them. They still will come to the stores and die there, like any other fish.
Think everyone - we have real survivors, but how many of those beauties never had a chance. Traveling in a bag for 24 hours(dying), sitting in a holding tanks somewhere(dying), our stores, stressed, sick (dying).
When I see very big and old fish in a store, my hart is truly aching, Why?

Forgive my not so perfect writing, you got the point.

[daniella3d]

Sure we do. Cleaner wrasse eat bits of fish mucous and any parasites they can find on those fish. There is a hint here, live food. Any small bits that they can eat is good. They can't swallow large food like mysis and they love cyclopeeze (frozen) which is close to their natural food. For both the copperband and the cleaner wrasse, having a live white worm culture is a lifesaver.

There was a girl in my area who could not get her copperband to eat anything and after 3 weeks she finally decided to buy a white worm culture. I shipped it by bus for her. 4 months later her copperband has gained weight and is eating his white worms each day. At the beginning it is often the only food they take after having decimated the feather duster population in the aquarium. After they get used to the white worms, they very often start on other food like mysis and fresh oyster or mussels cut in half. Doing a proper quarantine and getting them to eat is another big step. I did a month quarantine for both my copperband and cleaner wrasse and I was feeding them many times per day.

The cleaner wrasse really need small rich food to survive. cyclopeeze should be given each day and it should be fed at least twice a day. Looking how active this fish is, it is not surprising to think it must eat often. I feed mine live white worms morning and evening as well as cyclop 3 to 4 times per week and he also gets fish roe (caplan eggs) which he loves, each day.

They just need rich food as many times per day as we can. They don't eat a lot but often. Pump should be cut off to give it the best chance to catch the food and less need for spending energy swimming after it. I cut my pumps each time I feed so the cleaner really stay in one spot and swallow everything around, no need to go all over the place as they are not so agile to cath small bits of food going fast in the water.

Originally Posted by Myka

Cleaner Wrasse (and Copperband Butterflies, among many other fish) really are difficult to keep in captivity. Some people do have success even though most appear not to do anything extraordinary to keep these fish. A constructive discussion on how to keep these fish would be great...it's just too bad we don't yet know.