Cleaner Wrasse??

[daniella3d]

Absolutely not true. I don't know on what basis you say this, but either you tried one and failed so you think that one must be lucky to keep a cleaner wrasse alive, or you never tried so you don't even speak from experience.

I know plenty of people who have them for a long time. Mine is perfectly healthy and active and I don,t have any fish he can clean anyway. He simply eats good food like a little pig.

You are giving the wrong impresson that these fish are nearly impossible to keep, but it's simply not true. Same thing have been said from the copperband butterfly yet mine is fat and healthy and has been in my tank for a year and half now.

Originally Posted by naesco

The chances of a cleaner wrasse surviving more than a week or two are almost nil.

Reefers who are lucky enough to have one survive for a longer time post though, giving the impression that is it is ok to buy them.

It is not ok to buy them. They should be left in the ocean doing the great job they do cleaning other fish that we buy that do survive.

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

Absolutely not true. I don't know on what basis you say this, but either you tried one and failed so you think that one must be lucky to keep a cleaner wrasse alive, or you never tried so you don't even speak from experience.

Naesco. This is the same guy that posts regularly to tell people not to keep Copperbands in captivity. When questioned if he ever had one personally, he admitted buying one when he first started out in the hobby and not knowing how to properly take care of it. Of course it died on him. So just because he was irresponsible, now he thinks no one should be keeping them.

Cleaner wrasse may indeed be difficult (or not) to keep in captivity. But it would be nice if we had a more constructive discussion about why they die early, and how to keep them successfully.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Naesco. This is the same guy that posts regularly to tell people not to keep Copperbands in captivity. When questioned if he ever had one personally, he admitted buying one when he first started out in the hobby and not knowing how to properly take care of it. Of course it died on him. So just because he was irresponsible, now he thinks no one should be keeping them.

I would have to go ahead and agree with Naesco, although sending the message a little more diplomatically would likely result in more positive responses.

Cleaner wrasse may indeed be difficult (or not) to keep in captivity. But it would be nice if we had a more constructive discussion about why they die early, and how to keep them successfully.

Cleaner Wrasse (and Copperband Butterflies, among many other fish) really are difficult to keep in captivity. Some people do have success even though most appear not to do anything extraordinary to keep these fish. A constructive discussion on how to keep these fish would be great...it's just too bad we don't yet know.

Once upon a time, Green Mandarins used to be difficult to keep, and still are for those who don't take their requirements into consideration. We do now know what the requirements are, and likely we will eventually figure this out with many of the species that are currently difficult to keep.

Putting these "typically difficult to keep" fish in the hands of uneducated, inexperienced, or careless reefkeepers is really sad. When you've been around forums for a long time it gets tiring to read repetitive threads like, "What's wrong with my CBB?".

On the topic of cyanide, it is still used in many countries. CORAL Magazine just published an article highlighting a new Cyanide Test. Previously, the only tests available required sacrifice of the test fish, so this new test is groundbreaking.

Originally Posted by Ret Talbot

Unlike other cyanide detection tests, the new methodology provides for rapid detection of cyanide by testing the water in which the animal is being held. The procedure outlined in the paper utilizes an optical fiber sensor capable of detecting trace levels of Thiocyanate anion in seawater.

Since nearly 80 percent of all cyanide entering an organism is converted to Thiocyanate anion and excreted in urine, this procedure allows for quick, non-invasive screening for cyanide by simply testing the holding water. Because saltwater fishes retain Thiocyanate anion for long periods subsequent to the initial cyanide poisoning, this cyanide detection method can be used successfully throughout the supply chain.

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/cont...t-game-changer

[daniella3d]

Sure we do. Cleaner wrasse eat bits of fish mucous and any parasites they can find on those fish. There is a hint here, live food. Any small bits that they can eat is good. They can't swallow large food like mysis and they love cyclopeeze (frozen) which is close to their natural food. For both the copperband and the cleaner wrasse, having a live white worm culture is a lifesaver.

There was a girl in my area who could not get her copperband to eat anything and after 3 weeks she finally decided to buy a white worm culture. I shipped it by bus for her. 4 months later her copperband has gained weight and is eating his white worms each day. At the beginning it is often the only food they take after having decimated the feather duster population in the aquarium. After they get used to the white worms, they very often start on other food like mysis and fresh oyster or mussels cut in half. Doing a proper quarantine and getting them to eat is another big step. I did a month quarantine for both my copperband and cleaner wrasse and I was feeding them many times per day.

The cleaner wrasse really need small rich food to survive. cyclopeeze should be given each day and it should be fed at least twice a day. Looking how active this fish is, it is not surprising to think it must eat often. I feed mine live white worms morning and evening as well as cyclop 3 to 4 times per week and he also gets fish roe (caplan eggs) which he loves, each day.

They just need rich food as many times per day as we can. They don't eat a lot but often. Pump should be cut off to give it the best chance to catch the food and less need for spending energy swimming after it. I cut my pumps each time I feed so the cleaner really stay in one spot and swallow everything around, no need to go all over the place as they are not so agile to cath small bits of food going fast in the water.

Originally Posted by Myka

Cleaner Wrasse (and Copperband Butterflies, among many other fish) really are difficult to keep in captivity. Some people do have success even though most appear not to do anything extraordinary to keep these fish. A constructive discussion on how to keep these fish would be great...it's just too bad we don't yet know.

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by Myka

I would have to go ahead and agree with Naesco, although sending the message a little more diplomatically would likely result in more positive responses.

<snip>

Putting these "typically difficult to keep" fish in the hands of uneducated, inexperienced, or careless reefkeepers is really sad. When you've been around forums for a long time it gets tiring to read repetitive threads like, "What's wrong with my CBB?".

Unfortunately, with these forums, too many people like to just regurgitate popular or politically correct opinion, rather than provide constructive advice based on direct experience. Certainly CBB's and Cleaner Wrasse require more knowledge, care and attention than a Damsel or Angel. But that doesn't mean no one should ever keep these fish as Naesco advocates, and now Myka with her endorsement of Naesco.

In the case of CBB's, there is plenty of good information available about these fish, and how to set up a proper QT environment that suits the fish's behavior and feeding requirements. Both Daniella and myself (and others) have posted extensively about this.

I know far less about Cleaner Wrasse (but probably more than those that just say don't buy them), but would like to learn more. I would like to see more posts (like Daniella's) about how to do it successfully, and also what not to do. Personally, I am not ready to buy a Cleaner Wrasse (and don't know if I ever will), but I do appreciate hearing from those that have been successful, and those who have not (to try and find out why).

I am sure both Naesco and Myka mean well, but they would have a lot more credibility with me, if they advised caution and knowledge with these fish rather than just say "The chances of a cleaner wrasse surviving more than a week or two are almost nil". That statement is just not true.

Instead, I wish more of our "trusted experts" on this forum would advocate proper QT practices, that are appropriate to the specific fish (and coral). QT is not just about preventing disease, but also about acclimatizing and getting your fish strong and healthy before moving them to the display tank.

For me, it's more "tiring" to read over and over about newbies (and sometimes "experts", too) and how their fish are sick and dying because of ich and velvet (although often mistaken for ich). Saying to just just feed garlic instead of QT, is most irresponsible, IMO. And I am speaking from direct experience here, when I got burned initially by listening to the "experts" and going through the horrible ich in my display tank experience. Since then, I have gone QT (hypo only, no copper) with 100% success rates.

So hopefully, we can see more posts about what to do (and not to do) with keeping Cleaner Wrasse, and other other "difficult to keep" fish. There is no substitute for direct experience when it comes to knowledge.