Water changes

[tim the toolman]

Lol......this sure did take a turn for the hateful. It seems to be that people are happy to take the lazy route and have success, while others don't mind putting in the effort and also have success. So I guess everyone is right in their own mind. And as long as people are happy with their own systems what's the harm. I would just say to people who are going to remain closed minded that asking for help is a little foolish if it is only to spit in the faces of the helpful.

[MarkoD]

Originally Posted by tim the toolman

Lol......this sure did take a turn for the hateful. It seems to be that people are happy to take the lazy route and have success, while others don't mind putting in the effort and also have success. So I guess everyone is right in their own mind. And as long as people are happy with their own systems what's the harm. I would just say to people who are going to remain closed minded that asking for help is a little foolish if it is only to spit in the faces of the helpful.

the matter of fact is that every tank is different. and there are a million factors that contribute to the outcome.

i agree that without a way of nutrient export, waterchanges are really the only way to go. but if someone is having success using an algae scrubber, refugium, prodibio, zeo, or whatever else, why is that the bad or lazy way of doing it?

[tim the toolman]

Not saying lazy is the best word I was just using the go to wording that was being kicked around this thread. I was just merely saying that some go one way others try something different and both are proving to be successful. I just wouldn't fight that fight yet until you know what's killing your clams.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by tim the toolman

Lol......this sure did take a turn for the hateful. It seems to be that people are happy to take the lazy route and have success, while others don't mind putting in the effort and also have success. So I guess everyone is right in their own mind. And as long as people are happy with their own systems what's the harm. I would just say to people who are going to remain closed minded that asking for help is a little foolish if it is only to spit in the faces of the helpful.

Well said. Yes, a tank can be kept without doing water changes. For how long, I'm not sure. Most people don't keep their tank long enough to prove either way. I compare it to feeding my dog. I can feed Purina crap, or a real meat diet. It's well documented that dogs fed real food (or people for that matter) live longer more vigorous lives. I believe the same applies to my reef. If I want an amazing reef, I need to be an amazing reefkeeper, which to me holds certain standards (like changing water). I believe my reef will be amazing for many years because of it.
In all honesty, I don't care who changes water or who doesn't. Someone asked, seeking validation to not do something, I offered my thoughts to hopefully help them make decision. I believe they will have a better reef, for longer, by doing partial and frequent water changes. They can choose to do it or not. If not, no skin off my butt.
But....be honest about why you don't want to change it. Don't make up stuff to validate or hide the fact that you just don't want to expend the effort, or the money for salt. Other than that, I cannot think of any reason why one would not do water changes.

[MarkoD]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Well said. Yes, a tank can be kept without doing water changes. For how long, I'm not sure. Most people don't keep their tank long enough to prove either way. I compare it to feeding my dog. I can feed Purina crap, or a real meat diet. It's well documented that dogs fed real food (or people for that matter) live longer more vigorous lives. I believe the same applies to my reef. If I want an amazing reef, I need to be an amazing reefkeeper, which to me holds certain standards (like changing water). I believe my reef will be amazing for many years because of it.
In all honesty, I don't care who changes water or who doesn't. Someone asked, seeking validation to not do something, I offered my thoughts to hopefully help them make decision. I believe they will have a better reef, for longer, by doing partial and frequent water changes. They can choose to do it or not. If not, no skin off my butt.
But....be honest about why you don't want to change it. Don't make up stuff to validate or hide the fact that you just don't want to expend the effort, or the money for salt. Other than that, I cannot think of any reason why one would not do water changes.

i also dont agree with "never" doing water changes. but doing weekly or biweekly water changes requires a time commitment and the facility to do so (containers)

for me to do a substantial waterchange (50 gallons):

i would have to find a 50 gallon container, wait 24 hours for the RO/DI to fill it up, mix the salt (which i have 1000 gallons worth from boxing day), wait for it to mix.

Then remove everything from my sump, vacuum the detritus, pump out the water.

Then pump the fresh water in, allow the temp to match the water in the display and then turn on the pumps again.

honestly this could take a couple hours. i work a full time job, i run a business, i photograph all nhl home games. on nights when theres a game i leave my house at 8am, work all day at my job, then go straight to the arena to setup for the game and i wont be home till 11:30pm

and on the nights when i do come home at 4 and i have nothing else, i would usually like to hang out with my girlfriend over doing water changes.

[ReefOcean]

Originally Posted by MarkoD

i also dont agree with "never" doing water changes. but doing weekly or biweekly water changes requires a time commitment and the facility to do so (containers)

Reasonably so. I have stated as well that I don't disagree with water changes. My point is under the right cicumstances, you don't need to that often.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by ReefOcean

Reasonably so. I have stated as well that I don't disagree with water changes. My point is under the right cicumstances, you don't need to that often.

I guess my reasoning is that we cannot measure or account for the right circumstances, so to err on the side of caution, I change water. It's like fresh air to the critters, removes excess nutrients that I can't measure outside a lab, and replaces the things used I didn't even know were there.

[Aquattro]

I have to take a break, my head hurts Back later.

[ReefOcean]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I guess my reasoning is that we cannot measure or account for the right circumstances, so to err on the side of caution, I change water. It's like fresh air to the critters, removes excess nutrients that I can't measure outside a lab, and replaces the things used I didn't even know were there.

That logic isn't sound. If you can't account for the premise IE water quality, and conclusion IE doing water changes or suspending water changes is moot.

If that is what you mean..

But you can reasonably account for the conditions and circumstances through water testing and monitoring the health of your livestock. You can control the system by limiting bioload and having the proper biological and mechanical filtration in place.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by ReefOcean

But you can reasonably account for the conditions and circumstances through water testing and monitoring the health of your livestock. You can control the system by limiting bioload and having the proper biological and mechanical filtration in place.

At the very core of this statement, we disagree. We aren't going to convince each other. Let's revisit in 5 years.