Water changes

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by ReefOcean

Well, i was just adressing the "air" aspect of his analogy. As for bioload, that can be neutralized by other biological/chemical reations. I am not advocating not doing water changes but I beg the question, when waste is negligible and bological processes in the aquarium or efficient, is it acceptable to be lazy on the water changes? Is this a old -he said she said- "requirement" that has been passed around aquarists and ingrained into their heads as "rules"?

How is bio-load neutralized? There are always bio-products and elements needed for every reaction. For example and in simple terms raw organics eventually turn to nitrates and phosphates, how are these removed? Chemical filtration removes many trace elements and refugiums will also use up elements such as iron and iodine. These have to be replaced but for the average hobbyist they are virtually impossible to test for accurately. You also have to think long term, perhaps a tank will do fine for a long period of time as the elements slowly deplete as livestock adapts and it can handle a certain amount of stress unfazed but then levels fall below critical and things start to go wrong. Clueless on what exactly is issue is you begin bringing up levels but doing so too quickly results in even more stress perhaps even enough for some livestock to call it quits and dramatic changes in chemistry can cause all sorts of problems like algae outbreaks.

Can it be done, sure but I think it takes more experience than most of us have in order to avoid screwing yourself in the long run. There's no doubt I could stop water changes for months without issue but eventually things will probably go bad and then going back could make things worse. Dosing would help but if you can't test for it knowing exactly what's needed is next to impossible. Constant water changes insures stability overall and IMO is key to long term success.

[ReefOcean]

Originally Posted by sphelps

How is bio-load neutralized? There are always bio-products and elements needed for every reaction. For example and in simple terms raw organics eventually turn to nitrates and phosphates, how are these removed? Chemical filtration removes many trace elements and refugiums will also use up elements such as iron and iodine. These have to be replaced but for the average hobbyist they are virtually impossible to test for accurately. You also have to think long term, perhaps a tank will do fine for a long period of time as the elements slowly deplete as livestock adapts and it can handle a certain amount of stress unfazed but then levels fall below critical and things start to go wrong. Clueless on what exactly is issue is you begin bringing up levels but doing so too quickly results in even more stress perhaps even enough for some livestock to call it quits and dramatic changes in chemistry can cause all sorts of problems like algae outbreaks.

Can it be done, sure but I think it takes more experience than most of us have in order to avoid screwing yourself in the long run. There's no doubt I could stop water changes for months without issue but eventually things will probably go bad and then going back could make things worse. Dosing would help but if you can't test for it knowing exactly what's needed is next to impossible. Constant water changes insures stability overall and IMO is key to long term success.

Well put. I might add however, that we can know EXACLTY what our water is putting into the aquarium so logically, we can adjust for it.

For example and in simple terms raw organics eventually turn to nitrates and phosphates, how are these removed

Chemical/biological/mechanical filtration.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by ReefOcean

Well put. I might add however, that we can know EXACLTY what our water is putting into the aquarium so logically, we can adjust for it.

Chemical/biological/mechanical filtration.

Logically yes, practically no. It's not as easy as you might think, IMO water changes will be easier and cheaper.

Like I said after the rhetorical question biological makes bio-products and chemical removes more than you might think.

If you're lazy you can make an auto water changing system pretty easy, completely automated if you have a conductivity controller. My formula is simple lazy+$=success not lazy=success.

[Lampshade]

If you ware using a calcium reactor how is it any different than natural seawater replacing minerals? The trace elements are in the media, since it is dead coral. If i was dosing i would be doing lots of water changes to reduce the "extra" elements you are adding with the 2 part mixes.

The way i see it is if you have a big enough balanced system(well cycled, 0 nitrates/phosphates) then all you're doing in a water change is taking out "live" water full of beneficial bacteria, and replacing it with "dead" water. Why don't we change live rock over time? In theory it should have the same degradation as the water and buildup of unwanted elements.

I'm not wanting to full out say they're bad, lots of people do them, lots don't. Just putting forward something smarter lazy/cheap reefing. I've tried both ways, found that my tank stayed more balanced when i didn't do them.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Lampshade

Why don't we change live rock over time? In theory it should have the same degradation as the water and buildup of unwanted elements.

.

For one, it's cost prohibitive. Two, you have to dismantle your tank. but yes, you probably should change rock every 5 years or so, should you actully keep a tank going that long.

[ReefOcean]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Logically yes, practically no. It's not as easy as you might think, IMO water changes will be easier and cheaper.

Like I said after the rhetorical question biological makes bio-products and chemical removes more than you might think.

If you're lazy you can make an auto water changing system pretty easy, completely automated if you have a conductivity controller. My formula is simple lazy+$=success not lazy=success.

How is dumping a capful of dose into the tank once a month less practical than mixing and lugging around buckets of water?

Liek I said, it started off as a matter of being lazy (or very busy) but now it is a matter of "why?" Why do it if I don't have to.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by ReefOcean

How is dumping a capful of dose into the tank once a month less practical than mixing and lugging around buckets of water?

Liek I said, it started off as a matter of being lazy (or very busy) but now it is a matter of "why?" Why do it if I don't have to.

Because you're only replenishing, what if a certain element isn't being used and you keep adding it, it will become a containment. Water changes not only replenish they also reduce the concentration is anything elevated above norm.

Like others have said it's up to the owner to decide what's best for them. Do some research away from unrepeatable sources claiming this and that and make a decision based on what your believe will produce the most success while keeping the efforts in your comfort zone.

Here's a general link worth reading:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php