Planted FW tanks, substrate, pH and CO2 questions ..

[Delphinus]

And this metricide eliminates the need for injecting CO2 then? Interesting, will have to read up on it. I thought the whole point of CO2 is that most plants aren't meant to be submersed 100% of the time. I thought you couldn't compensate for that with more fertilizer or plant foods.. ..

I guess what I'm not explaining very well is that what has me stumped is not that "it takes a lot of CO2." I understand I'm losing CO2 due to the sump. What has me stumped is that no amount of CO2 makes ANY difference.

Let me explain - in the past, although it took a lot of CO2 to lower pH, the CO2 DID lower the pH, there was a measurable difference between CO2 on and CO2 off. Currently what is happening is that it doesn't matter how much I add, it makes no difference to the pH. The equipment hasn't changed (same reactor same tank, just a different point in time). I was just trying to seek out potential causes for this change and thought maybe it was because the carbonate hardness seems inexplicably high as well.

I've even reduced the surface agitation quite significantly by removing the Tunze and it made no difference.

Unless I have a cylinder of just raw air and not CO2 maybe, but it was filled from the same fire extinguisher refill place I've used for the past decade so I have no reason to suspect that this is the cause.

PS. Cale I'm sending you a PM..

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

The Metricide goes through some sort of chemical reaction that releases carbon and reduces organic buildup in tanks.

If you check out how much to use of Seachem Excel, then half that dosage when applying Metricide.

Hey Tony, I have the same Red Sea co2 reactor and it does a very good job. But you have to keep it clean which means washinging it out every 3 weeks. Since you haven't done a water change for a while, i'm sure it's efficiency has been minimized.

Actually, a lot of plant people are moving over to sumps. You do have to crank up the co2 a bit but it should still be measureable (unlike your circumstance). Tom Barr (estimative index - plant guru) has a thread on his site going about his own tank with sump. It's been doing very well and he has no problems optimizing the co2 levels.

I would keep that Tunze turned on, just don't point it towards the water surface. You just want enough surface agitation to move a few circles around. With your overflow, there is no need to worry about any scum build up.

How is your drip plate setup? Is the water tumbling into a filter pad and then dispersed via a drip plate?

I read up on the phosban reactor and it is too small to run GFO on a 120 gallon system. Unless you want to trade both of them.

[cale262]

Originally Posted by Cugio

Tom Barr (estimative index - plant guru) has a thread on his site going about his own tank with sump. It's been doing very well and he has no problems optimizing co2

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember reading that Tom was having issues with co2 and corrected it by sealing his sump, making it mostly air tight utilizing plastic sheets and duct tape...which may be worth the effort if you are keeping the sump.

[cale262]

I totally agree with the black fluorite, really makes things pop...

Here's one on my planted system pics with the blackflorite sand on the left side...

Originally Posted by cale262

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember reading that Tom was having issues with co2 and corrected it by sealing his sump, making it mostly air tight utilizing plastic sheets and duct tape...which may be worth the effort if you are keeping the sump.

Just looked into it and yes you are correct. He sealed the wet/dry trickle part.

[Delphinus]

Got a link to that by any chance? I'd love to read up on that.

Awesome looking tank btw, I like the look of the two different substrates. I wouldn't have guessed it would look so congruent but it has a nice flow to it.

Those cherry shrimps - I'd love to try them but I fear they'd be clown loach food. Is this a baseless concern, should I try some?

Here is a link that explains the co2 to air loss. He is known as plantbrain here.

Here is his latest journal. Click on page #4 to see his sump.

Originally Posted by Delphinus

And this metricide eliminates the need for injecting CO2 then?

I dose the full Seachem line up with the exception of Excel and Flourish Trace. The Excel is not as effective compared to pressurized co2. But is an option.

Originally Posted by Delphinus

I guess what I'm not explaining very well is that what has me stumped is not that "it takes a lot of CO2." I understand I'm losing CO2 due to the sump. What has me stumped is that no amount of CO2 makes ANY difference.

Try cleaning the reactor first. You can completely dissassemble the clear plastic part. the bottom round circle needs to be pulled off with pliers. You need to take the impeller out and give the motor a good rinse too. Then dial your co2 to 2 bubbles per minute. I like to put vegetable oil into my bubble counter verus using water. Refill your co2 drop checker/indicator and check with again in 24 hours.

Originally Posted by Delphinus

I've even reduced the surface agitation quite significantly by removing the Tunze and it made no difference.

Water flow and movement is very important. The more circulation the faster the co2 can spread. It sounds like you don't have a drop checker and are measuring with a test kit?

[Delphinus]

Originally Posted by Cugio

Hey Tony, I have the same Red Sea co2 reactor and it does a very good job. But you have to keep it clean which means washinging it out every 3 weeks. Since you haven't done a water change for a while, i'm sure it's efficiency has been minimized.

Actually I do keep the reactor reasonably clean. It's more a question of being forced into it - I have these little snails (ramshorn maybe? But tiny) that get in there and jam it up otherwise, so I have to take it apart completely to get those things out of there.

When I reset the CO2 initiative, I soaked it in a mild muriatic acid solution because it was covered in algae. Hair algae is the bane of this tank's existence and scraping it off wasn't cutting it (well, poor choice of words, it was ONLY cutting it, only for it to come back quickly). After its little bath there it was spotless and shiny and remains so still luckily.

Actually, a lot of plant people are moving over to sumps. You do have to crank up the co2 a bit but it should still be measureable (unlike your circumstance). Tom Barr (estimative index - plant guru) has a thread on his site going about his own tank with sump. It's been doing very well and he has no problems optimizing the co2 levels.

This is good to know, thanks. It's funny but I totally took this FW tank and applied a reef tank mentality towards it. It's been reasonably fun except when I had itty bitty fish keep going over the overflow. Between adding mesh to the overflow and not getting too small a fish it's gotten better.

I would keep that Tunze turned on, just don't point it towards the water surface. You just want enough surface agitation to move a few circles around. With your overflow, there is no need to worry about any scum build up.

Yes this is a nice benefit to this approach.

How is your drip plate setup? Is the water tumbling into a filter pad and then dispersed via a drip plate?

Exactly as you describe - filter floss and drip plate.

Try cleaning the reactor first. You can completely dissassemble the clear plastic part. the bottom round circle needs to be pulled off with pliers. You need to take the impeller out and give the motor a good rinse too. Then dial your co2 to 2 bubbles per minute. I like to put vegetable oil into my bubble counter verus using water. Refill your co2 drop checker/indicator and check with again in 24 hours.

2 bubbles per minute? I don't think I can dial back my regulator and needle valve that much.

Water flow and movement is very important. The more circulation the faster the co2 can spread. It sounds like you don't have a drop checker and are measuring with a test kit?

Er .. no, I'll say no since I have no idea what a drop checker is. For testing pH I've used both a pH test kit and a pH meter. Had the pH meter from the days of running a calcium reactor on the reef tank, same reason I have the 20lb cylinder actually.

What is a drop checker, can you post a link by any chance? (I'll google for it too in the meantime but please and thank you anyhow )