Chloramine - check your water source!

[Myka]

For those suggesting Prime, it is kinda difficult to get Prime into the water before the water goes through the RO/DI unit. After reading the article that fencer posted it sounds like monochloramine (the most common of three different chloramines) goes through the RO membrane not damaging it, but still getting to the tank. In which case adding Prime to the RO/DI product water could be a decent alternative.

Other references suggest that with a typical RO/DI unit the carbon block will convert the chloramine to chlorine and ammonia. The carbon will then convert that chlorine to chloride, which the RO will remove. The ammonia will make it through the RO where the DI will remove it. This would explain why I seem to burn through DI resin faster than what the TDS going to it suggest. There seems to be rather a bit of confusion on the subject! Several references suggest that catalytic carbon is required to break the bond of ammonia and chlorine. Hmmm...

I'm going to order a test kit. I wanted a chlorine kit anyway.

Originally Posted by fencer

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/

This is a really old article, but lots of very interesting information! Thanks for posting! I'm going to see if I can find something more recent.

[fishytime]

this may provide some insight as to why it seems that truly beautiful full blown SPS tanks seem to be zone specific......anyone else ever notice that or is it just me?

[Myka]

Yeah, I have been noticing that lately Doug.

Ok, I found this written in 2009. This written by Charles Metsis, President of SpectraPure. I bolded some interesting and/or important points.

Originally Posted by SpectraPure

More detailed explanation on Chloramines, membranes and carbon filters:

In order to understand the mechanism of chloramine removal, a little background information on the chemistry of chloramines is necessary. Chloramines are formed by the reaction of ammonia and chlorine gas. Chloramines can exist as three chemical species: monochloramine (the predominant species found in tap water), dichloramines and trichloramines. The chloramine species depends upon the pH of the water and the ratios of chlorine to ammonia. At tap water pH levels of 7 to 8.5, the formation of monochloramines is favored. Of the three species, monochloramine is the most stable and difficult to remove, as well as the most damaging to aquatic life.

A “ppm-hour” is defined as the exposure of 1 ppm chlorine/chloramine water for 1 hour. Film-Tec quotes 300,000 ppm-hours (six years at 1 ppm) of chloramine resistance for their TFC polyamide (PA) membrane material, but only 200 to 1000 ppm-hours of free chlorine resistance. This indicates that chloramines will not damage Film-Tec membranes, while free chlorine levels must be held below 0.1 ppm to prevent oxidation damage. The easiest test for chloramine is with a Total Chlorine Test Kit (SpectraPure Part # TK-CL-10). The TK-CL-10 tests for a combination of free chlorine and chloramines. A sample of the wastewater stream from the RO membrane should show no signs of chlorine.

The most important purpose of a sediment filter is to protect the downstream carbon block filters from plugging with sediment. A properly designed sediment filter will have a micron rating smaller or equal to the closest downstream filter element. It will have a gradient density structure such that the outer layers capture the larger particles and the inner layers capture the finer particles. This will maintain a large dirt holding capacity and prevent the finer particles from plugging downstream carbon filters. Using a 5 micron carbon block followed by a 0.5 micron carbon block, maximum chlorine and volatile chemical removal can be achieved without premature filter failure. If a sediment filter is used that passes particles larger than the next downstream filter, that filter will plug, blinding off the active carbon surfaces, reducing its ability to remove chlorine and organic chemicals.

Trade-offs exist in almost any circumstance and carbon filtration is no exception. The smaller the micron rating, the better the removal capacity due to greater surface area. Carbon block filters made with bituminous carbon are more effective than coconut shell carbon filters for removal of monochloramine. On the other hand, in water supplies with chlorine only, the coconut shell carbon may have higher capacities for the removal of free chlorine and low molecular weight volatile organic compounds such as trihalomethanes (chloroform). Multi-carbon block pre-filtration is not always necessary, especially in smaller flow rate systems when adequate pre-filtration and sub-micron carbon block filters are used. Activated carbon will break the chloramine bond and remove the chlorine component leaving free ammonia (NH3+). RO membranes are transparent to dissolved gases that will pass freely through the membrane concentrating in the RO product water.

Generally, reverse osmosis water is slightly acidic, due to the higher ratio of free CO2 to bicarbonate alkalinity. The exception to this rule is the presence of high pH “soda-lime softening” used by some municipalities. Free CO2 dissolved in water forms carbonic acid that lowers the pH to the range of 5 to 6 pH. In low pH RO product water, the ammonia is converted to the ionized ammonium ion NH4+. Downstream de-ionizing resins can then easily remove this charged species. It is cationic and removed by strong acid cation resins (in the hydrogen form) in either mixed bed or separate bed systems. Aquarists can be certain that when salt is properly added to RO or RO/DI water, the expected salinity and pH will be realized.

[MarkoD]

Anyone know if north Edmonton uses chloramine?

And I think of you use prime for chloramine it'll just turn it into ammonia. Just don't know what the concentration is

[Bblinks]

Interesting! I better contact the city and ask if it's used in BC. Funny this was just mentioned on Mr Saltwater Tank passed Friday.

[Aquattro]

Victoria uses chloramine for it's water. I've never addressed it in my system though....

[Nano]

Originally Posted by MarkoD

Anyone know if north Edmonton uses chloramine?

And I think of you use prime for chloramine it'll just turn it into ammonia. Just don't know what the concentration is

I think prime takes care of ammonia, chlorine and chloramine as well, but I could be wrong, I know it says a few things like that on the label

[MarkoD]

Originally Posted by nanomano

I think prime takes care of ammonia, chlorine and chloramine as well, but I could be wrong, I know it says a few things like that on the label

It doesn't disappear tho. It's converted to something less dangerous

[Nano]

ahhh, I see lol. I wonder if putting prime in it the bubbling an airstone like you would for chlorine if that would take care of the rest? probably not haha

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

For Metro Vancouver (including Burnaby reefers), I found this posted by the government:

"Metro Vancouver draws its water from Capilano, Seymour and Coquitlam sources and distributes it through its waterworks systems to member municipalities after treatment. As a part of the provision for treating water, Metro Vancouver uses chlorine as a primary disinfectant for Seymour and Capilano source waters. Coquitlam source water uses ozone and ultraviolet (UV) light as primary disinfectants. These source waters are subsequently
re-chlorinated at various regional secondary disinfection facilities installed in 1998. The disinfectant dosages are monitored at the regional chlorination facilities using on-line potentiometric chlorine analyzers.

The Seymour-Capilano Filtration Plant (SCFP) which is located near Rice Lake in the Lower Seymour Conservation Reserve went to full filtration on January 15th, 2010 and operated successfully throughout 2010. The Seymour source water is now be treated (filtration, corrosion control and disinfection) at SCFP and is conveyed by regional water mains to member municipalities for distribution to homes, businesses and industry. The primary disinfection facility at Seymour Falls Dam continued to operate until July 22, 2010.
Metro Vancouver discontinued chlorination of the Seymour source at Seymour Fall Dam on July 29th, 2010. When the twin tunnel component of the SCFP project is complete, the Plant will treat 1.8 billion litres of water from both the Seymour and Capilano sources. SCFP was constructed in the fall 2009, and is the largest of its kind in Canada. It includes the world’s largest ultraviolet disinfection system."