Opinions on stocking Anthias and other fish

[naesco]

Originally Posted by ScubaSteve

Hey guys,

I'm having a hard time putting together a fish stock list for the new tank and I have been, for the past few weeks, rather interested in Anthias. Off the bat I will say it: Yes, I realize they can be a challenge. I'm cool with this. I want a bit of a challenge and I am working on some cool ways to feed live constantly. So... ummm... no need to bring it up.

I am also going to be doing this in a 50 gallon cube with lots of swimming space. I know this is smaller than what is usually recommended for these fish but there is a method behind this madness, so bare with me for a minute.

There are 3 species that I am considering at the moment (in order of my love for them):

1. Sunset Anthias (Pseudanthias parvirostris)
2. Bartlett's Anthias (P. bartlettorum)
3. Red Saddleback Anthias (P. Flavoguttatus)
4. Dispar Anthias (P. dispar)

Unless I can find a good deal for a few of them, the p. Flavoguttatus are a bit out of my price range so let's just ignore those for now.

Let's talk about the Bartlett's first. I have read time and again that bartlett's have a tendency to all turn male and eventually all kill each other. This seems to happen especially in larger tanks where it is recommended that you keep a harem. The theory goes that because there is more space and the dominant females are beaten up less they feel more inclined to turn male. While this is good in that it creates a supermale/sub-dominant hierarchy where you get awesome colours out of the fish, they end up killing each other eventually. In a smaller tank they tend to scrap it out more to establish the male/female hierarchies so the females are less likely to turn male. I have been debating trying 3-4 bartlett's in my 50 gallon as a bit of an experiment and see if this stops them from all turning male. Thoughts?

The Anthias that I REALLY want in the Sunset Anthias. I know these guys are sometimes hard to get eating. I'd keep myself prepared with live foods during the weening process or even build an auto-live food feeder (been playing with this idea for a while) if they refuse prepared or frozen foods completely. There isn't a whole lot of info out there on these guys but I do know that they are pretty hardy once established and eating and tend to be a less pugnacious than the Bartlett's. Again, I'd like to try a few of these guys if possible but would happily consider keeping one singly. Thoughts?

Because the Sunset's are tricky to get eating and are timid, I have been debating using a Bartlett as a dither fish and adding it just before or at the same time as the Sunset's to have the bolder Bartlett show the Sunset how to eat and show them that everything is safe. I've been a bit worried about adding a Bartlett before the Sunset for fear of having the Bartlett beat up on them.

Now, if you feel a harem is not going to work out for me, what about keeping 1 or two of each different species... Like 1 Sunset, 2 Bartlett's and 1 dispar? Anyone ever have success with mixed singles? I realize that in this situation I might have them fade into all sub-dominant colours.

I'd love to have a small harem in the tank (of any fish) that will stay together. I recognize that schooling behavior in these fish is typically brought on or accentuated by having a "bully" in the tank. I will be adding a mystery wrasse after all of the anthias. The wrasse will tend to bully them as time goes on, keeping a bit of order to the harem and, because the wrasse hangs out in the middle of the water column and around the rock, this will keep them grouped in the upper water column more of the time.

I am only planning on having 4 or 5 smaller fish (max) in the tank as this tank will be more of a coral tank.

Any one with a bit of experience with any of these fish?

Scott Michael is the authority on saltwater fish.
Here is a talk he gave on anthias which I hope your will consider when you make the decision on whether or not you choose antias for your tank,
http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog...el_030401.html

I tried dispar anthias because I understood they were the easiest to keep and understood they did better is a small shoal. One by one they petered out. In talking with other reefers, they relayed that their experience was the same.
Although they are beautiful fish, I will not try keepin them again.

[doch]

Up until we moved, I had a Bartletts and a Sunset/Fathead Anthias in my 55. Unfortunately, we lost the two of them and our flame angel in the move. Oddly, they were in the same bucket, so maybe one of the coarals released something???

Anyways, I had no troubles with the 2 of them at all. They both accepted all kinds of frozen and pellet food (NLS). They kind of interacted, but not really, so I wouldn't count on the Bartletts teaching the Sunset anything. Neither fish was aggressive towards any others... especially not each other. I really liked both of them, and want to try them again. I also want a pair of Barbonus/Blotchy (I prefer to call them Punk Rock) Anthias. They're kind of hard to find though.

Since, I've tried a group of Lyretails. 1 M, 4 F. The male is the only survivor, and he's kind of a jerk... I wish I didn't buy them. I suspect that Dispar may end up the same kind of results, but I have no experience with them personally.

My vote, should you choose to accept it, is for 1-2 Sunset (just make sure that they're eating before you buy them - I didn't do this, maybe got lucky?) and 1-2 Bartletts. The Bartletts tend to swim around a lot, where as the Sunset seemed to stay put. IME at least.

[lastlight]

I've had a lone squarespot for months. devours anything I put in the tank and that is usually NLS pellets and frozen mysis.

[ScubaSteve]

Originally Posted by doch

Up until we moved, I had a Bartletts and a Sunset/Fathead Anthias in my 55. Unfortunately, we lost the two of them and our flame angel in the move. Oddly, they were in the same bucket, so maybe one of the coarals released something???

Anyways, I had no troubles with the 2 of them at all. They both accepted all kinds of frozen and pellet food (NLS). They kind of interacted, but not really, so I wouldn't count on the Bartletts teaching the Sunset anything. Neither fish was aggressive towards any others... especially not each other. I really liked both of them, and want to try them again. I also want a pair of Barbonus/Blotchy (I prefer to call them Punk Rock) Anthias. They're kind of hard to find though.

Since, I've tried a group of Lyretails. 1 M, 4 F. The male is the only survivor, and he's kind of a jerk... I wish I didn't buy them. I suspect that Dispar may end up the same kind of results, but I have no experience with them personally.

My vote, should you choose to accept it, is for 1-2 Sunset (just make sure that they're eating before you buy them - I didn't do this, maybe got lucky?) and 1-2 Bartletts. The Bartletts tend to swim around a lot, where as the Sunset seemed to stay put. IME at least.

When I say teach I mean teaching by showing that the food is safe to eat. Usually when a picky eater sees a dither fish going for prepared foods they're a bit more brave to go for it. My Midas blenny was awesome for this.

You had the fathead, ya? My understanding is that they are a deepwater species that like to hang out at the bottom or in caves. The Sunsets I am referring to are similar in behavior to the Bartletts but a little more timid.

You had one of each species? They got along alright?

[doch]

Originally Posted by ScubaSteve

When I say teach I mean teaching by showing that the food is safe to eat. Usually when a picky eater sees a dither fish going for prepared foods they're a bit more brave to go for it. My Midas blenny was awesome for this.

You had the fathead, ya? My understanding is that they are a deepwater species that like to hang out at the bottom or in caves. The Sunsets I am referring to are similar in behavior to the Bartletts but a little more timid.

You had one of each species? They got along alright?

Oops... my bad. Turns out I had the SunBURST/Fathead's name wrong the whole time. I thought it was a Sunset. Oops.

I knew what you meant by 'teaching'... since I had the wrong fish though, their interactions will likely be totally different.

Yes, I had 1 fathead, and 1 Bartlett's and aside from the Fathead deciding that he liked the Bartletts side of the tank, and the Bartletts relocation... no problems.

[Proteus]

I housed two bartletts ,two stocky pinks and two lyretails in my last tank all were readily eating though the bartletts squabbled quite abit. They got along ok. I lost the bartletts in a move.

Now I house two stocky pinks the lyretails and 6 Carberryi. The Carberryi get along great with the stocky pinks but tend to leave the lyretails out. They took to Cyclopes and mysis within a day of having them and now are the first fish in
Line to eat. How long they will live I'm not sure but I feed them three time daily and all seems well

[ScubaSteve]

Originally Posted by naesco

Scott Michael is the authority on saltwater fish.
Here is a talk he gave on anthias which I hope your will consider when you make the decision on whether or not you choose antias for your tank,
http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog...el_030401.html

I tried dispar anthias because I understood they were the easiest to keep and understood they did better is a small shoal. One by one they petered out. In talking with other reefers, they relayed that their experience was the same.
Although they are beautiful fish, I will not try keepin them again.

Thanks Naesco! I was looking for that talk. Actually, the process I was discribing above and the issues about Bartletts turning male was also from him. It seems there isn't a totally clear answer on the anthias, hence why I am looking for some anecdotal experience. I do understand they are a species that needs the social hierarchy of a large shoal and have gone through the debate of whether or not to get them. I think I have decided that I am going to try them but only after a lot of homework, which I have been doing for about 2 months now. I am thinking a building an automatic live breeder/feeder for them to supplement their diet as well.

I've heard the same about dispars by have also heard they are more finicky. It seems the Bartletts are more hardy but without the a-hole attitude of the lyretails. The sunsets are also very hardy if you can get them eating.