Edmonton Freshie walking the plank, Any advice to ease the wallet/headaches :)

[Myka]

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Originally Posted by Hustler

I plan to buy new pumps in the future depending where the tank goes as far as inside needs, Ill have to buy a second if i go the sea swirl route anyways. I would suggest an Oceans Motions device instead. My personal preference.

Looks like i have about 30" from base of sump to top of wood. Ok, just make sure you pick a skimmer that will fit, and leave yourself at least 1" to remove the skimmer cup, but preferably 3" or more.

My sump has a tray at the top of the first chamber i use floss in now and then 30-40 gallons of bio balls that drains into the main sump.... then i have about 3 feet of open chamber before the pumps bulkhead on the end so I will have to add a baffle there for sure Or atleast make an egg crate baffle with a foam to eat up the bubbles but there is plenty of room for a skimmer in there. I would not use the foam as anti-bubble. Foams and floss can't be rinsed and reused in reef tanks...they will become nitrate factories. Throwing away a foam block once a week would become costly. Filter socks are the only easily machine-washable and reusable filter media. They attach directly to the drain pipe(s) as they enter the sump.

You have plenty of room in your sump to employ macroalgae culture for nutrient reduction. Totally optional on your part. If you decide on this, make a chamber in the sump after the skimmer and ONLY put chaeto in there (need a light too...clip on table lamps work well with small flood light). The Chaeto needs to be able to roll freely from the current going through so it can't have any rock or anything else in there to get hooked on. It will suck up a significant amount of phosphate and nitrate provided it is done well.

One of the biggest differences between saltwater and freshwater is that in freshwater you are trying to make nitrate as fast as possible, and saltwater you are trying to remove nutrients before they have a chance to become nitrate. The protein skimmer plays a big part in this.

I may go with a Skimz sm251 if i cant find anything better or cheaper??? The SWC skimmers with the Askoll pumps are a good choice too. The 230 and 250A would both be good and easily fit in your sump. The Skimz is fairly equivalent of the SWC 230, but better build quality.

I would like to try and keep critters in my sump if possible as Ive always wanted a mantis shrimp but i would rather all the other crab/shrimp type cleaners in the display tank. I will need to do a ton of research to find out who can live with who and then build thier reef to what they need i guess.
I would suggest you set up a separate system for a mantis. They eat a lot and make a big mess (pollute the water).

I always wanted a lionfish, and Im not terribly interested in the small school fish or anything that looks like a chiclid LOL More like angles and and your typical larger salt fish But i also really wanted stars and shrimp/crabs or even a lobster This is all way down the road i know but i should still prepare.
There are Dwarf Lionfish that can go right in the display tank provided there aren't any tiny fish, but things like clownfish are just fine in with them. Google "Fuzzy Dwarf Lionfish". Shrimp and crabs will be eaten by Lionfish.

I think you would be happiest with a FOWLR (so don't bother with that halide lighting!) considering the fish you want. There are still some corals that won't get eaten by the fish you describe. If fish are more important I say pick out a bunch of fish, and then choose some corals that will go with them, but keep in mind you will definitely be limited.

Have any of you ever dealt with eco live rock from back east? cheap and clean live rock with free delivery??? I don't know anyone who has used it. It sounds like a good product, but it is homemade rock. The quality/functionality could be questionable... or it could be great. Hard to say.

[Hustler]

Myka
Thanks for all the super fast and well informed replies You are making this alot easier than it first seemed.
I dont suppose there is a walkthrough somewhere or a simple list laid out for newbies that explains type of fish with coral and crustation compatability?
I have lists from my suppliers all the time either from back east, vancouver or even staeside when flights permit..... but with zero hours in the salt realm i find myself a little blind where with fresh i understood it all at a glance

[Myka]

You're welcome. There are lots of opinions though, mine are just mine. Take others' advice too. There is no cut and dry method although I've been around long enough (18 yrs) to know what is easy and straight forward to recommend to a newbie. I say partake in the KISS (keep is simple stupid) method, and then as you gain experience and understanding you can integrate more equipment and more complicated methods if you so choose.

Your suppliers? What store do you own/operate? When coming from the USA corals require CITES permits, fish just require wildlife permits, invertebrates I'm not so sure. Just an FYI.

A good skimmer will hurt your pocketbook, but it may be the saving grace keeping you in the hobby. You can always buy a used skimmer and then if all else fails and you do lose interest you will be able to sell it for the same (or near) price you bought it. That doesn't hurt so much.

[Hustler]

I dont have a store at all, but Ive dealt with tons of exotic suppliers on the freshwater side that are also probably salt suppliers to some of you.
My track record with fresh has been super exotic and costly but mostly in the livestock and not so much in the equiptment.... Ive been keeping arowanas since i was 14 and i had my first super red asian at 18 when they were insanly priced and alot higher quality that what most are avalable now And they too require a cities 1 permit microchipped with a TAG ID number....
I have had an amazing track record with even daily maintnence on HUGE bio loads with thousands of dollars swimming around for years.. But its been alot more basic parameters and knowing what works and sticking with it approach thus Im a newbie to salt.... but im not a beginner to the hobby
If my questions seem very basic its because Im looking for the most info i can squeeze out of an answer and in any hobby the more you know the less you fail and one day it will become fun like everyone else seems to be having
Here is the pride of this tank that I am now switching over.... She was a one of a kind in her day and I hope I can make it there eventually in the salt world

[Myka]

So if you sold a super red you should be able to buy a Bubble King. There really aren't very many fish in the saltwater world that fetch $1000+. Most fish are under $100, still lots more under $250. I do know how much those fish are worth in that tank, so it does have me wondering why you are flinching at spending $1000+ on a skimmer.

[Hustler]

lol you are right myka I am being a bit ornery lol
Im doing my very best to addapt to the new school of thinking..... but even in my younger years i remember an old saying a gent who used to own his own pet store would say.... In salt the hobby is all about whats under the tank and not about whats in it.... I dont want all the bells and whistles under there I can do that with my back and arms bi weekly lol..... Im just trying to find a happy balance between toys and having actual animals in there. Of course i want to do it right the first time..... but I dont want to be the sucker that buys the fluval X5 right off the shelf for $500+ and see someone making an AC500 $42 outdo it with a few simple mods.... I understand the quality vs import and all that but there is a point where really its just a brand.... and your paying top dollar for it

[mike31154]

Yep, the skimmer game is a tricky one with plenty of "innovations" coming along frequently, some worthwhile, some not so much. It's a hot topic of discussion but there have been a few recent studies that show there's no significant difference in performance between some of the newer technologies & the older ones. There's definitely a threshold where the cost of innovation & material outweighs the claimed performance increase. If cost is no object, knock yourself out, but I'm on a limited budget & have found my old school, wooden air diffuser driven, counter current model to work quite nicely. Of course for a 300 gallon heavily stocked system you'll need something fairly large, but that doesn't mean it has to break the bank. Even the older technologies can be adapted to large skimmer requirements. If I'm not mistaken, contact time between water & bubbles is one of the major factors affecting performance. This means either a very tall skimmer (not an option with sump in cabinet under display) or the shorter, more powerful recirculating type skimmers. This also means more electricity and potentially noise.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by Hustler

lol you are right myka I am being a bit ornery lol
Im doing my very best to addapt to the new school of thinking..... but even in my younger years i remember an old saying a gent who used to own his own pet store would say.... In salt the hobby is all about whats under the tank and not about whats in it.... I dont want all the bells and whistles under there I can do that with my back and arms bi weekly lol..... Im just trying to find a happy balance between toys and having actual animals in there. Of course i want to do it right the first time..... but I dont want to be the sucker that buys the fluval X5 right off the shelf for $500+ and see someone making an AC500 $42 outdo it with a few simple mods.... I understand the quality vs import and all that but there is a point where really its just a brand.... and your paying top dollar for it

Ok, here's the thing. A skimmer isn't "bells and whistles". Controllers, fancy powerheads, crazy lights with replicated thunderstorms...those are bells and whistles. There is a certain amount of bragging power with a Bubble King though, it's is not leaps and bounds better than other skimmers in its class when it comes to performance, but it is the type of skimmer that you will "never" have to replace. Bubble King makes huge skimmers...over $10,000. When a company is making $10,000 skimmers they know what they are doing.

I'm a cheap skate...I buy everything used. Although I did buy my last skimmer new (a SWC) after I looked for several months for a used skimmer of a better brand. I really wanted a better brand, but I'm happy with the skimmer I chose although I know I will likely be replacing the pump within the net year or two which I'm sure will really **** me off when it happens. I'm pretty patient when it comes to looking for used equipment, but my tank was really starting to suffer with just a small spare skimmer I had on it (an under-sized SWC) and a tank maintenance company that didn't clean it well enough to make up for that.

Doing physical maintenance on the tank is great, I'm big on that too. The trouble is that being a newbie you don't know what you're looking for and your problems will likely start to get out of control before you notice. I can tell you right now by looking at my tank that the alkalinity is somewhere in the 6 dKH right now because of the way the corals are looking. I better fix that right away. I haven't tested the tank in 2 1/2 weeks (bad on me).

Which btw, you need some powerheads! We haven't talked much about that either. You're going to be looking at adding 30-60x turnover in the tank by the use of powerheads. In order of awesomeness (and price!) check out Vortech ($$$), Tunze, and Koralia. Powerheads get the fish poop and other detritus suspended in the water column so it can go down the drains and into the skimmer. If the crap can't get to the skimmer then the skimmer doesn't do much good.