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[Megalodon]

Originally Posted by reeferious

not too sure about cruelty side of entombing live animal inside keychains. look at all those oysters, clams and other live edibles placed live on ice in supermarkets waiting for human consumption. think their potential lifespan is no more than 4 to 5 days.l

Oysters and clams don't have brains so they can't experience pain or mystery. It's not right to do that to animals that can but at least it's for food.

[Aquaria]

Originally Posted by Megalodon

Oysters and clams don't have brains so they can't experience pain or mystery. It's not right to do that to animals that can but at least it's for food.

What about the lobsters and crabs? How about the tanks so full of fish they can only swim in one spot? I think your forgetting how bigsuperstores seafood section really is

[blaster]

I would take rhino horn powder if it made me grow hair on head

[Megalodon]

Originally Posted by Aquaria

What about the lobsters and crabs? How about the tanks so full of fish they can only swim in one spot? I think your forgetting how bigsuperstores seafood section really is

Like I said, it's not right to do that to animals with brains, but at least it's for food. In other words, it's bad but not as bad. I'm forgetting am I? Just the other day I was thinking of writing a story (I'm a writer) on the way live animals are treated in the seafood section of some grocery stores. I was wondering how long it would take me to get kicked out after whipping out my camera and taking pictures. Don't assume.

[Aquaria]

Originally Posted by Megalodon

Like I said, it's not right to do that to animals with brains, but at least it's for food. In other words, it's bad but not as bad. I'm forgetting am I? Just the other day I was thinking of writing a story (I'm a writer) on the way live animals are treated in the seafood section of some grocery stores. I was wondering how long it would take me to get kicked out after whipping out my camera and taking pictures. Don't assume.

iv always had a prob with asumtions but anyway I give you 5 min flat maybe a dozen pics before security gets to you lol

[daniella3d]

while we're at it, what about the chickens that live all of their live stuck in a small cage with 2 individuals in it, so they can't move to waste any energy and fat and all they do all day long is eat and pick at each other eyes?

just wondering but do you still eat chicken?

Originally Posted by Megalodon

Like I said, it's not right to do that to animals with brains, but at least it's for food. In other words, it's bad but not as bad. I'm forgetting am I? Just the other day I was thinking of writing a story (I'm a writer) on the way live animals are treated in the seafood section of some grocery stores. I was wondering how long it would take me to get kicked out after whipping out my camera and taking pictures. Don't assume.

[jon.smolders]

I don't think crualty to fish or turtles (any animals) for entertainment purposes is right (food is a different story), and there are moral problems and hypocrisy both in our culture and in others in this respect.

I think what I was reacting to in my first post was whether or not it should be legal. Do we really need laws against crualty to goldfish? Maybe against the commercial sale of fish kept in inhumane conditions... but then do we really want that? Would it interfere with or hinder a LFS's ability to exist? Or would it just force them to keep their tanks clean? I don't really know... it just seems like we have too many laws and restrictions in this country as it is and when something goes wrong, we blame the government.

What we want to know is "why is this happening?"
- Is the problem the governments for allowing it?
- Is the retailer to blame for being greedy and trying to turn a profit with no regard for ethics?
- Is it the consumer and their materialistic obsession for entertainment?
- Or a combination?

The solutions
- Education: Maybe we just need to set up more aquariums and get more people into the hobby so the general public gets up to speed on the proper way to care for aquatic life.
- Moral Reform: A lot of this stems from greed, selfishness, a lack of respect for creation, ect.
- Laws: Crack down on the idiots until they get the point and stop it. But... this doesn't always work. Example: Speeding tickets.
- Let is play out: As sphelps pointed out... the problem might just take care of itself as soon as people end up with dead fish or turles after three days.

[Megalodon]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

while we're at it, what about the chickens that live all of their live stuck in a small cage with 2 individuals in it, so they can't move to waste any energy and fat and all they do all day long is eat and pick at each other eyes?

just wondering but do you still eat chicken?

I eat free-range chicken and eggs most the time, if not, in the very least, free run.

All Lilydale's chickens are free-run. I've been to such a facility and never saw any debeaked chickens picking at each other's eyes with their non-existent beaks. (How to chickens without beaks pick at each other's eyes anyway?)

The whole 'two wrongs make a right' and 'guilt by association' arguments are asinine anyway. Animal abuse should know no borders.

"How are the chickens Lilydale uses treated?
All birds raised for Lilydale are raised in controlled barns where they have free range of the entire barn. The number of birds to square footage is controlled to allow the best conditions. The birds are not kept in cages or treated poorly."

http://lilydale.com/article/articleI...s_article_id=3

[Megalodon]

Read the National Farm Animal Care Council's website ... http://www.nfacc.ca/codes-of-practice

We still have a way to go, but if anyone thinks we treat animals just as poorly as China, they have something wrong with them.

[DCDN]

We can state that it is inhumane to take a creature and put it into such a condition. Though this hobby is about that. We can argue about the right size of a tank for a tang. Yet to someone outside this community could easily argue that the ocean and free range can never be recreated in a tank. Is a 6 foot tank really that much better than a 4 foot tank or is it just a way to justify it to ourselves. By no means to I feel putting a fish into a key chain is acceptable. However I realise that I have taken living creatures away from their natural habbitat. I can try to justify it to myself by stating my fish live in better water than I drink and such things as trying to provide the best environment for them. This can not truely compare to where they were taken out of the ocean. A goldfish in a key chain compared to a tang in a 6 foot tank could be the same arguement.