Copperbands Valentine's Day Lovefest - Not

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

Can't beleive I am the only one upset seing things like that...

Call me batch number 1458 if you wish...member of the copperband police.

daniella i do agree with what you say and ive read just about all your posts so i know for a fact your a very very smart person but sometimes we have to have a little faith in the common reefer......not many are out to purely hurt a fish and no one wants to see a fish die.

its a fine line to cross with an experiment and abuse to a fish and i dont think this is a case of buying two copperbands and just dropping them into a tank to hash it out.the op has gotten them to feed hes well aware of the dangers of having two and is well aware of their track record..... will it be successfull who knows possibly not but we do need this in this hobby.

from what i remember you bought a skinny copper to try to fatten him up and knowing that they dont do well i aquarium life while some say that would have been a bad idea i believe if you do our research and think you have an honest chance then give it a try.....so far so good right??


bad track record yes...impossible no

i know of a lady who has had a copperband for many many years shes involved in research and very knowlegable about the hobby with over 15yrs experience she was oneof the first reefers i met in alberta and led me on to a diet for my yellow tang that turned him completely around so its not impossible to keep one.


lets face it theres alot of new dscoveries to be had in the marine hobby and we shouldnt be to quick to judge.....alot of this was started and perfected with hobbyst like yourself and the o.p who wanted to "try" and each day i thank god that someone had of taken that step or wondered why we cant have this in our home

so lets all be open minded and offer advice that will help (not that you havent because you have offered great advice) if theres a problem then lets not judge and label people "fish abusers" lets help solve the problem and help as best as we can


there are no tang police or copper police merely people who are concerned for our scaley friends and alot of times a kind word of advice will go along ways where as putting down peoples practises will just get your advice ignored.


ummmmm so lets all be open minded and do what we do best which is advise and pls dont take things to heart and get mad it really doesnt help but a positive attitude will go on and on and on and on



like i say in the beginning i know for a fact your a very smart person and one with a big heart for the hobby so keep it up but lets help more and create positive feedback or people are just going to do this stuff and not post it and the more publc posts we get the more public info there is cheers

[daniella3d]

yes I know and beleive me that I feel like a "Bi***" saying all these things (I am not like that) but it does upset me to see such thing and I could not just watch without saying my opinion about it. I don't know why it upset me so much..it's not my fish after all. Maybe I just love my butterfly too much so I get emotional when watching this video.

I just hope it turn out well.

Originally Posted by reefwars

so lets all be open minded and offer advice that will help (not that you havent because you have offered great advice) if theres a problem then lets not judge and label people "fish abusers" lets help solve the problem and help as best as we can


there are no tang police or copper police merely people who are concerned for our scaley friends and alot of times a kind word of advice will go along ways where as putting down peoples practises will just get your advice ignored.


ummmmm so lets all be open minded and do what we do best which is advise and pls dont take things to heart and get mad it really doesnt help but a positive attitude will go on and on and on and on

[Reef Pilot]

Daniella, I read your thread about your Copperband purchase. Sounds like you have had him for less than 2 months, which is certainly not a lot of experience with these fish. Sounds like he had a tough time too, and having to go through all that medication.

But I will give you credit for trying something new, the white worms, to get him eating again. Though not sure of the longer term effects of feeding these to SW fish,and hope you continue to get him converted over to other foods as well.

I have both of mine now eating freeze dried Mysis shrimp enriched with vitamins, as well as other frozen and fresh foods including clams. And they are really going after the food with gusto, no tentative bites. They stuff their mouths until they can't swallow anymore, and bits are sticking out the sides as they try to force it down.

On the behavior side with mine, I watched them quite a bit yesterday, and the bickering through the divider has almost totally stopped. There were a couple attempts by the smaller one on the left to start something, but the bigger one does not react now.

What is really interesting though, is how much they act in tandem. When one goes to the top looking for food, they other one goes up too, to have a look. And if one is hunting on the bottom, they other is too. When I come into the room, both come to the front of the glass to greet me. And sometimes they are both just sitting quietly on each side of the divider, like they are just hanging out together. Also, if one gets scared for some reason, if I make an unexpected movement or something, and goes and hides, the other does the same.

As I said before, I think this tandem behavior has helped the smaller one to convert over to new foods. Monkey see, monkey do, really works.

Again, not advocating having 2 Copperbands, but thought this behavior is really interesting. I am wondering if maybe I have a male and a female. If peace continues for a while again, I may just try removing that divider again to see what happens. Of course, I can put it back in a blink if it is doesn't work out.

Reef Pilot

[daniella3d]

How long I have my copper is a bit irrelevant in that situation. It is very easy to see that your fish are stressed in that video. My copperband was for about a month at the reseller, then I have it for about 2 months. Prazipro is not hard on a fish, it is even reef safe. I used it in my reef frag tank and nothing was affected. The flukes are hard on a fish.

The problem was not that he was not eating, but he was eating too little, just 3 to 4 mysis per day. It seem that copperband need a lot of food to be at their top health. They should really have that full fleshed fat pad at the top if they are healthy.

the white worms are quite fat but the important thing is not to overfeed and to give a variety of food. Mine does not care for mysis and will only eat it if he's totaly starving. You are lucky if yours accept dry food, mine would not.

I will not get him converted to anything else, as I tried many times and he does not care for anything else. Starving him to get him to eat something else will not work either as he does not mind getting very skinny and eating only to bearely survive when he does not like the type of food he's offered. That's why he was so skinny on mysis when I first got him...he was only eating just to stay alive. You can bring a horse to the water but you can't force it to drink.

So mine is very finicky eater..hard to keep and maintain, but I still love that fish and I am doing what it takes to give it a good life.

I don't understand if you fish eat so much, why are they still skinny after 3 weeks? They should be fat by now eating that much? Maybe they have internal parasites and you should treat them. Mine expealed a 6" worm when I treated him with prazipro. if fish eat a lot and still are skinny, then something is not right. Either they have internal parasites or they have been cougth with cyanide and are waisting away.

My yellow tang was skin and bones when I got him and after 3 weeks of good food he was fat as they can be, so that,s strange.

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Daniella, I read your thread about your Copperband purchase. Sounds like you have had him for less than 2 months, which is certainly not a lot of experience with these fish. Sounds like he had a tough time too, and having to go through all that medication.

But I will give you credit for trying something new, the white worms, to get him eating again. Though not sure of the longer term effects of feeding these to SW fish,and hope you continue to get him converted over to other foods as well.

[Reef Pilot]

Well, I wouldn't call mine fat, but they are noticeably filling in on the sides, and the stomach area is no longer sunken like when I got them from the fish shop. Pretty well all Copperbands I've seen in the fish shops are on the skinny side.

I make a point of not overfeeding to ensure that no uneaten food can rot in the aquarium. Also, I like to keep them a bit hungry and it helps when trying to get them onto new foods. So the first week, it was just small portions of frozen Mysis, then the 2nd week got them eating bits of clam, and just a few days ago, started them on the freeze dried food . They are definitely eating a lot more, and more often now than the first 2 weeks. So I do beleive they are well on the way to better health and vigor.

Their behavior has changed too, in that they are less timid, more eager at feeding time, and that bit of aggression that you saw in the video was a good sign too. Fish in the wild experience that all the time. If they are strong and healthy, they do not hesitate to defend their territory, or fight to establish their place in the pecking order. What you don't want to see is a fish that can't get away or has to hide in a corner. That type of harassment is definitely stressful.

As for parasites, I have not seen any evidence of that. I was watching very closely for signs of Ich or Velvet, but have not seen any spots, the fins are clear, and no flashing or head shaking. So I have not used any medication. As for internal parasites, might still be possible, and may not know for some time. But as long as they seem healthy, I am certainly not going to throw in any medication.

Also, today I noticed that an Aiptasia is missing on the left side where the smaller guy is. Actually, I can't find any Aiptasia at all on his side of the divider. So not sure it that one moved away somehow on his own or the Copperband ate him. Did not see him do it, though. Have a few rocks with Aiptasia on the other side, so will move one over, and see if he goes after it.

Reef Pilot

[daniella3d]

No sorry I don't think that the "bit" of aggression we see in that video is anything good. In the wild the loser can surely leave the place but in an aquarium it can't. Fish in the wild can go away, obviously. How can you compare this situation to "fish in the wild"??

This is exactly what will happen in your aquarium, "a fish that can't get away and will hide in a corner..if not killed."

Funny I was just reading an article in the Coral magazine "Triggerfish, FEB 2009" and the article called "No risk no fun" was showing a photo of 2 copperbands kept together and on one pic they are side by side peacefully and the next photo where showing the same fish fighting a bit later. They are talking about the common mistakes that beginners do. Guess who I was thinking of while reading that article?

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Their behavior has changed too, in that they are less timid, more eager at feeding time, and that bit of aggression that you saw in the video was a good sign too. Fish in the wild experience that all the time. If they are strong and healthy, they do not hesitate to defend their territory, or fight to establish their place in the pecking order. What you don't want to see is a fish that can't get away or has to hide in a corner. That type of harassment is definitely stressful.

[ensquire]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

No sorry I don't think that the "bit" of aggression we see in that video is anything good. In the wild the loser can surely leave the place but in an aquarium it can't. Fish in the wild can go away, obviously. How can you compare this situation to "fish in the wild"??

This is exactly what will happen in your aquarium, "a fish that can't get away and will hide in a corner..if not killed."

Funny I was just reading an article in the Coral magazine "Triggerfish, FEB 2009" and the article called "No risk no fun" was showing a photo of 2 copperbands kept together and on one pic they are side by side peacefully and the next photo where showing the same fish fighting a bit later. They are talking about the common mistakes that beginners do. Guess who I was thinking of while reading that article?

We got your opinion, move on, everyone else has