Bidirectional tidal flow

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by MitchM

"He" has a name you know......






(sorry, couldn't say that with a straight face for long...)


Mitch

My apologies... fixed!

[StirCrazy]

I am actualy planning this for my next tank.. I have been looking into it for about 4 years now. you need two valves, one pump and a bunch of plumbing to do it right. this also includes drilling both ends of the tank with several holes.

what I am planning is about 6- 1" bulkheads on each end which combine into a manafold on each end. then 2" line splitting to two actuated valves one on the suction side and one on the discharge side of the pump.

with this set up you will actualy get complete lamaner flow across the whole tank so when in operation the bulkheads on one end are the discharge and the ones on the other end are the suction, when the ballvalves change this suction and discharge change ends.

this is the ball valve if you notice the one configeration has no "off" so during change over water flowes through both outlets.
http://www.haywardflowcontrol.com/pd...Way_Valves.pdf

here is the actuator
http://smsnet1.smsmktg.com/~hayward/...s_Actuator.pdf

the only other thing to do would be to come up with a controler that would alternat power on a timed basis to open one as it closes the other, then after a set time reverse the process. this could be done with an adruno based micro processor or what ever.

Steve

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by golf nut

It's a count down timer, when the motor turns and a magnet effects the sensor the power triggers the timer to start counting down and turn the motor off, once time down has occurred power goes to the motor, it turns and when the next magnet is seen it repeats, you can time down anywhere from seconds to weeks depending on the timer used.

Ok I'm still missing something here. It must be more than just a count down timer. If this were the case the drum would rotate until the sensor is triggered and opens a circuit. The open circuit triggers the counter which turns off the motor. OK so far so good but then when the counter stops the sensor is still in the same position and therefore the circuit is still open which will reset the timer. This will continue forever and the drum will never move again. For this system to work that timer must have some kind of algorithm built in, which will either be a delay or something that over rides the sensor until the circuit closes again.

For the system to be reliable a simple a delay won't work. If it's an over ride that's a pretty cool little system. How much would the whole system cost, built and ready to go?

[MitchM]

Steve,

How are you going to deal with stuff getting drawn into the suction bulkheads if you're using the same ones for discharge?


Mitch

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

I am actualy planning this for my next tank.. I have been looking into it for about 4 years now. you need two valves, one pump and a bunch of plumbing to do it right. this also includes drilling both ends of the tank with several holes.

what I am planning is about 6- 1" bulkheads on each end which combine into a manafold on each end. then 2" line splitting to two actuated valves one on the suction side and one on the discharge side of the pump.

with this set up you will actualy get complete lamaner flow across the whole tank so when in operation the bulkheads on one end are the discharge and the ones on the other end are the suction, when the ballvalves change this suction and discharge change ends.

this is the ball valve if you notice the one configeration has no "off" so during change over water flowes through both outlets.
http://www.haywardflowcontrol.com/pd...Way_Valves.pdf

here is the actuator
http://smsnet1.smsmktg.com/~hayward/...s_Actuator.pdf

the only other thing to do would be to come up with a controler that would alternat power on a timed basis to open one as it closes the other, then after a set time reverse the process. this could be done with an adruno based micro processor or what ever.

Steve

That's what I did 8 years ago with the tsunami device, with just one valve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCgLY0baPOk

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Ok I'm still missing something here. It must be more than just a count down timer. If this were the case the drum would rotate until the sensor is triggered and opens a circuit. The open circuit triggers the counter which turns off the motor. OK so far so good but then when the counter stops the sensor is still in the same position and therefore the circuit is still open which will reset the timer. This will continue forever and the drum will never move again. For this system to work that timer must have some kind of algorithm built in, which will either be a delay or something that over rides the sensor until the circuit closes again.

For the system to be reliable a simple a delay won't work. If it's an over ride that's a pretty cool little system. How much would the whole system cost, built and ready to go?

It would be a fairly easy DIY mod to a 4 way or 2 way, still will cost $39

[madkeenreefer]

If the OM drum needs only to rotate 90deg to open the opposing ports then you could easily calculate the RPM of the OM valve.
Lets say 2rpm that means every 15sec 90deg is achived.
Theirfore if you have a adiquite timer you could eaisly switch power off for 6hrs then turn power on for a period of time which would be chosen bye increments of time such as 15sec (90deg), 45sec (180deg) ,1:15 (270deg) ect.(creating random flow to simulate the changing of the tide) then close the power to the OM to have the flow comming out of the other ports
make sence?

[MitchM]

Originally Posted by madkeenreefer

If the OM drum needs only to rotate 90deg to open the opposing ports then you could easily calculate the RPM of the OM valve.
Lets say 2rpm that means every 15sec 90deg is achived.
Theirfore if you have a adiquite timer you could eaisly switch power off for 6hrs then turn power on for a period of time which would be chosen bye increments of time such as 15sec (90deg), 45sec (180deg) ,1:15 (270deg) ect.(creating random flow to simulate the changing of the tide) then close the power to the OM to have the flow comming out of the other ports
make sence?

The problem with that is that if you are off by 1 degree or a couple of seconds, it would only take a few days before you would have be off your cycle and have flow coming out of both outlets before it went back into sync again.

Mitch

[golf nut]

Originally Posted by madkeenreefer

If the OM drum needs only to rotate 90deg to open the opposing ports then you could easily calculate the RPM of the OM valve.
Lets say 2rpm that means every 15sec 90deg is achived.
Theirfore if you have a adiquite timer you could eaisly switch power off for 6hrs then turn power on for a period of time which would be chosen bye increments of time such as 15sec (90deg), 45sec (180deg) ,1:15 (270deg) ect.(creating random flow to simulate the changing of the tide) then close the power to the OM to have the flow comming out of the other ports
make sence?

Finding a cheap reliable multi-function timer is the issue, you may as well go directly to PLC do not pass go and do not collect 200 dollars, the OM revolves at 1rpm, it may take a little time to program it correctly guessing time per degrees, I wouldn't even waste my time, set it for 15 sec intervals and then eventually it will repeat its self every 4 years

you are better off with a positioning sensor to be accurate.

[MitchM]

Originally Posted by golf nut

It would be a fairly easy DIY mod to a 4 way or 2 way, still will cost $39

Does the 2-way come in a 2" size?

Monsieur Mitch