Snails very unhappy

[ScubaSteve]

So for about the past week or so I have been having something weird going on with my snails. First, I was finding my Margarita snails on the sand on their backs. Didn't really surprise me much as I typically find them this way (I am convinced Margarita snails are natures D-students). But then I started finding my trochus snails the same way. I would do as I normally do and hold them near the glass and let them stick on; but whenever I let go they couldn't hold on. Now my cerith are doing the same and so is my strawberry top snail! With the exception of some new trochus I added the other day, everyone is lying on the sand all shut up or unable to hold onto anything! Even the new cerith I added are doing the same.

I am concerned that this is a sign of something big on its way.

To give a little back info:

-I found my velvet nudi sucked into the filter inlet on the weekend, dead. I got him out before he started polluting the tank and am running lots of carbon just in case. Snail issue I noticed after I got him but before he died.

-I recently moved my tank (probably close to two months ago) and just recently had a small diatom bloom (which I attribute to a new substrate)

-I've refrained from cleaning the glass to try and give the snails something to eat until other algae pick up again.

-Parameters are more or less spot on. Not dosing anything.

Anyone have any idea what the heck is going on here?

[naesco]

Originally Posted by ScubaSteve

So for about the past week or so I have been having something weird going on with my snails. First, I was finding my Margarita snails on the sand on their backs. Didn't really surprise me much as I typically find them this way (I am convinced Margarita snails are natures D-students). But then I started finding my trochus snails the same way. I would do as I normally do and hold them near the glass and let them stick on; but whenever I let go they couldn't hold on. Now my cerith are doing the same and so is my strawberry top snail! With the exception of some new trochus I added the other day, everyone is lying on the sand all shut up or unable to hold onto anything! Even the new cerith I added are doing the same.

I am concerned that this is a sign of something big on its way.

To give a little back info:

-I found my velvet nudi sucked into the filter inlet on the weekend, dead. I got him out before he started polluting the tank and am running lots of carbon just in case. Snail issue I noticed after I got him but before he died.

-I recently moved my tank (probably close to two months ago) and just recently had a small diatom bloom (which I attribute to a new substrate)

-I've refrained from cleaning the glass to try and give the snails something to eat until other algae pick up again.

-Parameters are more or less spot on. Not dosing anything.

Anyone have any idea what the heck is going on here?

What is your temperature, salinity and ammonia readings.
What is the size of your tank and how many snails did you have?
Do you have an algae problem?

[ScubaSteve]

Like I said, params are pretty spot on (Temp: 79F Salinity: 1.025 Ammonia: 0 ppm last lime I checked the other day) and I did a 25% water change yesterday and a 10% change a couple days before. It's a 40G square tank and I had maybe 8 or so snails including my big strawberry top snail when I moved and upgraded from a 20G. A few disappeared after the move and I added 10 new snails the other day. No algae problems though I am having a small diatom bloom due to the new substrate.

[naesco]

Snails require extremely slow acclimatization from the LFS to a reefers tank. Unless you follow that protocol that is the cause of death.

Snails will die if there is salinity changes which may have happened when you changed tanks.

However it is more likely that they are starving to death. Adding ten snails without a reason for adding them and without feeding them is probably your problem.

[gobytron]

Originally Posted by naesco

Snails require extremely slow acclimatization from the LFS to a reefers tank. Unless you follow that protocol that is the cause of death.

Snails will die if there is salinity changes which may have happened when you changed tanks.

However it is more likely that they are starving to death. Adding ten snails without a reason for adding them and without feeding them is probably your problem.

I cant count the number of times I have just "dumped" snails into a system, either fresh from the LFS or from a tank I purcased and broke down or just moved from upstairs tank to downstairs tanks and I honestly can not think of ever losing one...

particularily as described by the OP here.

I also think its pretty unlikely that all snails would be dying from starvation, thouh I could understand a little attrition from this.

Have you used any frag putty at all lately?
sometimes if you use too much or let it break down too much inour water column it can coat everything with a slime that makes it impossible for snails and their like to attach to anything.

[ScubaSteve]

Trust me, I am anal when it comes to acclimation, even snails. The new ones I did over the course of maybe 4 hours or so on a drip. When I moved the older snails with the tank, they were in in maybe 2 to 3 hours but they were all fine until recently. I don't have an algae problem (aside from the recent diatoms) but I have been ltting the glass get dirty over the past 2 months so that they do have something to eat while waiting for other algae to start up again. On top of all that, I keep small algae "fields" (hair, turf, unknown red calcareous, etc.) for my urchin and crabs to graze on. I keep it contained to one area of my rocks by there is enough there to eat.

That being said I have been worried about starvation and I have some Nori in there for them to nibble on nut they won't go for it.

I don't use frag putty but I do use super glue gel to attach frags to rocks (same kind I have used for years). I recently did a re-scaping and used the gel to secure some pieces in place, though I didn't really use it in abundance. Could this be part of it?

The snails seem weak and unable to hold on long enought to eat. It seems more like a virus, parameter, contaminant or starvation issue to me.

[gobytron]

haha...lol

Ive been reefing for way too long to be anal about acclimating anymore...lol

pretty much have a 50$ rule where if it's over, it's properly acclimated but if it's under, it's usally a fast drip at the most.

The case I am thinking off where the snails couldnt gaint traction anymore due to glue bein overused was in a 12 gallon aquapod...

the symptoms were very similar to what you reported but he was using the putty and not the gel and his tank was much smaller so a higher concentration of the putty.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by gobytron

haha...lol

Ive been reefing for way too long to be anal about acclimating anymore...lol

pretty much have a 50$ rule where if it's over, it's properly acclimated but if it's under, it's usally a fast drip at the most.

The case I am thinking off where the snails couldnt gaint traction anymore due to glue bein overused was in a 12 gallon aquapod...

the symptoms were very similar to what you reported but he was using the putty and not the gel and his tank was much smaller so a higher concentration of the putty.

Gobytron
I have a rule too!
Whether it is a 50 cent snail or $50.00 fish I strive to do everything to give the invert, or fish the best chance of survival in my tank. They arrive at the LFS in weakened condition after their long journey here. Therefor, the care we take in putting them in our tanks is important.

Scuba, it is great to hear about the care you take in acclimatization. That rules it out as a problem.
I would take a water sample to the LFS and have them do a ammonia test and also double check the salinity.
Sometime our test kits and salinity meters are off.

[gobytron]

Originally Posted by naesco

Gobytron
I have a rule too!
Whether it is a 50 cent snail or $50.00 fish I strive to do everything to give the invert, or fish the best chance of survival in my tank. They arrive at the LFS in weakened condition after their long journey here. Therefor, how we put them in our tanks is important.

Scuba, it is great to hear about the care you take in acclimatization. That rules it out as a problem.
I would take a water sample to the LFS and have them do a ammonia test and also double check the salinity.
Sometime our test kits and salinity meters are off.

I doubt very much you have any better survival rate than i do.

Plus, you could argue that after all the stress of transport and over crowding conditions at LFS' that the best thing for any organism is to get into their new, stable and ideal environment as quickly as possible.

The other side of the coin is that if you are confident in your systems ideal parameters, you shouldn't see much difference from your tank to that of the lfs.
maybe I can say this because my regular lfs are OA and JL and they are exemplary.

and take that hat off of your poor tang.

he looks ridiculous.

[Youngster Dan]

Hi scuba, here is an interesting read on snails. I don't have an answer for you, though I supose this article may be more helpful than two people bickering back and forth ruining your thread.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rs/index.php

Good luck. Oh and +1 on acclimatizing for a while, I figure it definitely doesn't hurt (especially with regards to snails) and it is really easy to do.