what hang on the back skimmer should I go with

Hay Myka what you are saying make s sense but not everyone ca afford the expensive stuff. I would drill it now though if the tank is empty and if you feel like you don't want a sump you can cap the bulk heads for now until you find out how much movement there is in the floor. some times older houses will have twisted floor joist and will not hold as much weight.
I get Jenn's thought on the situation and don't blame her in some ways. I have a small bow front up stairs because the only places that I can put a tank right now is where the joists run parallel to the area, so no large tanks up stairs. besides in the basement I don't have to worry about the tank flooding as much there are drains in basements any ways but there would be almost no damage to the house.
I am bias toward Aqau Medic as their skimmers have treated me very good I have found allot of people that don't like them, you know that is them this is me. By the way I also like Deltec, ETSS and Red Sea Berlin skimmers because they are good skimmers ASM make another good skimmer that does not have to cost you your first born to get and does a good job, I can go on. I think the point is I think most people make good and valid points on here in most instances.
Myka I really like some of the reef keeping articles you have posted on here and have refereed some people to them, so your hard work and opinions do not fall on deaf ears but some time they can be heard of hearing.
I think in the long run we can all agree that any one in getting in to the hobby should buy the best equipment they can afford.

Bill

Originally Posted by gobytron

Funny huh?
when adding 3 words can make such a big difference...
an as for bunched panties, these were on the soapbox when I got here


You might consider a siphon overflow until you move.
even the people who strongly advocate against them might agree that as a temporary solution until you move and can have your tank drilled while you are moving (or even buy a new system that is pre drilled and sell your old one).

Ask around and I think you will find that most people who hate on the siphon overflow haven't actually used one or didnt have it set up properly...

Here's a link to a very high quality one that you can look at if you want to consider an alternative to drilling right now, keeping in mind you can often pick these up for under 50$.
http://lifereef.com/frame.html

If not, you might want to post your question about where to get drilled in the Alberta forum so that you get the question to an audience who could best answer you from experience...

Over the side overflow boxes work good they were the rage at one time because there were limited places to get a tank drilled and none came pre drilled. You could not get the bits readily to drill them so most people went with overflow boxes. you can get one the will automatically prime and keep the prime just in case some thing happens. The only time a overflow loses its prime is if there is a hole in the tube or acrylic or there are a tun of micro bubbles that get sucked into the overflow and get trapped to eventualy break the flow. IMO you would have to be pritty lazy to not notice this much bubbles in a tank or be on holidays. but then you should have some one watching the tank and you would get a call. I am not against over the top overflows I have used them and they work but only as good as the operator. I am partial to the CPR style you can install a airline fitting and attach to a venturi or aqua lifter to ensure the siphon dose not get broken and it will remove any air to prime the over flow.

Bill

[gobytron]

Just a somewhat side note...
If you have your overflow and flow set up properly, you will NEVER see microbubbles in your tubing.
The only reason that this happens is not enough flow to create enough force to have the bubbles organically pulled out of the tube...

I think that this is th emost common error in setting these up and also the main reason for failure.

Originally Posted by gobytron

Just a somewhat side note...
If you have your overflow and flow set up properly, you will NEVER see microbubbles in your tubing.
The only reason that this happens is not enough flow to create enough force to have the bubbles organically pulled out of the tube...

I think that this is th emost common error in setting these up and also the main reason for failure.

yup your right. my tank is drilled got it that way It is an old school tank, stand pipe with overflow box mounted on top the stand tube tank up less real estate and you can put a top on the overflow box. I had to hunt for a bulk head to fit the hole because they use to just use pipe and fittings and a whack of silicone or or Orings on both sides of the glass to make sure the screw and connector fitting would seal around the hole. I did get a bulk head thanks had to look around and found one that was threaded. The old way would some times leak after a while if you did not re tighten the fittings after a couple of months but then you were good to go.

Bill

[Myka]

Originally Posted by bvlester

Hay Myka what you are saying make s sense but not everyone ca afford the expensive stuff.

This is true. I am a cheap person. I buy 95% of my tanks' equipment used. The tank, stand (which I wrecked lol), lights, skimmer, powerheads...all used. I even bought the live rock "used". I did buy new sand, and I do buy new light bulbs. You save yourself a lot of money buying used equipment. I probably saved 60-75% on most items. You just need some patience to find what you are looking for.

Originally Posted by gobytron

not enough flow to create enough force to have the bubbles organically pulled out of the tube...

Thanks for making me laugh again. It is appreciated - in my humble opinion anyway.

[kien]

[Madreefer]

I see nothing wrong with what Myka is saying at all. She's actually speaking from experience. Fishgirl asked for opinions and she got it. No need to attack someone because you don't agree.

[gobytron]

Originally Posted by Myka

This is true. I am a cheap person. I buy 95% of my tanks' equipment used. The tank, stand (which I wrecked lol), lights, skimmer, powerheads...all used. I even bought the live rock "used". I did buy new sand, and I do buy new light bulbs. You save yourself a lot of money buying used equipment. I probably saved 60-75% on most items. You just need some patience to find what you are looking for.



Thanks for making me laugh again. It is appreciated - in my humble opinion anyway.

Hey, no problem...lol
If I were a lonely tradesman in saskatchewan I would be looking for laughs anywhere I could get them too...

And FYI, even at 60-75% of a discount, which is rare as in my experience, unless the equipment you are buying is in really poor condition you can really onlyexpect a 30-40% reduction from retail price.
and even then, it's always a challenge to find exactly what you need when you need it.
But lets assume you do get that wonderful discount on used....lol
It`s still expensive to a lot of people...not everyone is a ticketed journyman without much more in life than their aquarium to spend money on...

Myka voiced one strong opinion and I voiced another...
I certainly didn't consider anything in this discussion a "fight" or an "attack" (like when someone picks apart your choice of words to describe something you consider helpful and pertinent to the thread when their only intent is to try and embarass you...lol) as it was already mentioned some here do.

Can there be only one voice on this forum...lol

I regret that I don`t have a thousand or more posts, but I still feel that I should be able to express myself, even if I don`t concurr with the opinion of someone who`s more....established than me.


I had thought that we were done here and that this thread could be given back to the original poster but then I find that the soapbox has once more been set up...lol

[Myka]

Originally Posted by gobytron

Hey, no problem...lol
If I were a lonely tradesman in saskatchewan I would be looking for laughs anywhere I could get them too...

...not everyone is a ticketed journyman without much more in life than their aquarium to spend money on...

Wow, you're really a piece of work. I'm not a ticketed journeyman. You must be referring to an earlier post in this thread where I said I am 6 months away from my Red Seal...? I am not in that line of work anymore. I'm not sure why you're so interested in my life or where I spend my money, but I am definitely not lonely. I do make good money, but most of my money is not spent on my aquarium. You have spent a lot more money on your aquarium than I have, so I'm not sure what leg you have to stand on there...?

And FYI, even at 60-75% of a discount, which is rare as in my experience, unless the equipment you are buying is in really poor condition you can really onlyexpect a 30-40% reduction from retail price.
and even then, it's always a challenge to find exactly what you need when you need it.
But lets assume you do get that wonderful discount on used....lol
It`s still expensive to a lot of people

Would you like a price list of what I have spent on equipment for my tank (I'm sure you're not interested)? It took 6 months to collect all the equipment, but I did spend 60-75% less than retail (even more if you consider the retail prices aroundSK), and all the equipment is less than a year old in very good condition. You just have to be ready to jump on a good deal.

Originally Posted by gobytron

I regret that I don`t have a thousand or more posts, but I still feel that I should be able to express myself, even if I don`t concurr with the opinion of someone who`s more....established than me.

You can express yourself all you want. There are dozens of people on these forums that know me in person. There are hundreds that have taken my advice to improve their reefs or increase their knowledge. Many people trust what I have to say because I have a track record. If you're concerned about your "lack of establishment" or that your opinions are falling on deaf ears or whatever it is you're actually whining about make a track record for yourself. Oh, but your life is just way too exciting to bother with such a pathetic waste of time.

[mike31154]

I'm looking forward to a future build with basement sump. In the meantime I've been running a sumpless 77 gal that I aquired used from a lady in Richmond a few years ago. It came with a DIY HOB old school counter current wooden air diffuser skimmer. I was a total newb & had little clue as to what was in store for me. The only info I started with was a small book on SW aquariums my niece had given me for Xmas. About a year or so later I snagged a deal on another tank (65 gal) that was on sale locally. Added the livestock & LR to the 77 and replaced the old school skimmer with the RemoraC Pro that came with the 65.

Must say that I prefer the old DIY skimmer over the Remora. I found the Remora very noisy and only pulled mild tea out of my system. The price was right since it came with the 65 gallon, but I really don't think I'd spend the money on a new one. I ended up cracking the intake tubing one day and was happy to go back to the old DIY job. Much quieter and uses a fraction of the wattage as the beast of a Mag 3 pump that ran the Remora. After a few mods to the DIY skimmer it performs well. I'm now even to the point where I'm making my own 'monster' wooden air diffusers since the LFS around here don't stock wooden air stones with any regularity. It skims quite dry and the stuff I scrape out of the upper chamber is what I consider 'quality' gunk. I have a drain tube on the collection cup going to a 2 liter pop bottle and only need to empty that every few months, to give you an idea how dry I skim.

Debates on skimmers seem to get heated quite regularly. The cheapo used DIY unit is still running on my sumpless system and I have no plans to 'upgrade' until I do the basement sump build. At that time I'm considering another 'wood driven' DIY skimmer, only much taller since room won't be an issue. I have no problem changing wooden air stones every once in a while. Still one of the best methods to create very fine bubbles with a minimum requirement for high powered equipment. Other than the Remora and my DIY, I have zero experience or knowledge regarding skimmer technology. Most of what I see out there is beyond what I'm willing to spend to replace my current one.

I'd say Myka's advice on having your tank drilled now is a good idea, even if you don't plan a sump right away. As mentioned you can plug the holes until you're ready for a sump. At the very least this will save you some time when you make your move. The less time your livestock spends in temporary containers during a move, the better. As you've seen throughout this thread, there are a number of options open to you, including sumpless, skimmerless with more frequent water changes or going all out with overflow, sump, skimmer and all the fixins'. I guess it boils down to your budget and future plans. Either way I'm sure you'll be successful. Best of luck.

Here's my favourite skimmer. Foam head is quite white since it's just been cleaned. I've upgraded the air pump to a larger one since taking the photo:



Pre skimmer box with pump and skimmer output into separate compartment at far end: