HELP....Ginger has lots and lots of new puppies

[rstar]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Posting in a public forum is asking. Id like to see the comments and looks you'd get with your ears cropped

Except for the fact that in this thread Neal did not ask for anyones opinions on the ethics of him breeding his dog....

[lockrookie]

+1

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by lockrookie

+1

Oh, math!! I love math. Thank you for your wonderful and informative post, it's really opened my eyes.

[lockrookie]

im sure those dedicated dog breeders started as back yard breeders at some point in thier lives when they first started out

just my 2 cents
im done and handing thread back to owner good luck with the puppies again

[Chaloupa]

Originally Posted by lockrookie

im sure those dedicated dog breeders started as back yard breeders at some point in thier lives when they first started out

just my 2 cents

That's rather broad and judgmental ...and if there were statistics to show, I'm sure that this is far from the truth.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by lockrookie

im sure those dedicated dog breeders started as back yard breeders at some point in thier lives when they first started out

just my 2 cents

I agree. Although the difference, I suspect, is the long term goal of a specific breeding program. A breeder should also be responsible for all the pups for all the years they're around. They should be willing, and in fact demand that any dog that can't be kept is returned to them. It's a standard part of a well written contract. They should also gaurantee the pup from any genetic defects at any point in the dog's life. This means a refund or replacement pup. They should be ready and willing to help all owners for the next 15 years with anything to do with the pup. Idealy they're part of a breed club or organization, dedicated to improving the breed (as an argument against Steve's comment, a breed standard as set by the kennel club is not specifically a good thing).
I have border collies, and as a breed, they should only be bred after proving themselves on stock. This is either done via full time farm work, or placing high in at least regional open class trials. Then they are evaluated for temperment, physcal characteristics, etc, before a breeding match is made. This type of commitment and ability comes from years of experience, and takes dedication to a close to full time activity. Breeding should be left to the pros.
If someone wants to become a respected responsible breeder, then they should work under the mentorship of someone who is already there.
Breeding your pet dog, simply because you can, is wrong on many levels.

I don't expect to change many minds, but people need to think a bit harder about creating life, and what will come of those lives for the next decade and a half. There are hundreds of thousands of discarded dogs in shelters all across north america, many of them a direct result of breedings just like this. and if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by lockrookie

im sure those dedicated dog breeders started as back yard breeders at some point in thier lives when they first started out

just my 2 cents
im done and handing thread back to owner good luck with the puppies again

actualy most good breaders start out under mentorship from the breader they got there dog from, so right from square one they are reasearching genetics and matching. and also are installed with the ethics of there breadings. also another thing to look for is are they a member of the CKC, if not don't buy from them. not every member of the CKC will be perfect but if they get caught straying from the ethical standard they are removed so a long time breader that is a member of the CKC is a pretty good bet.

Steve

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by rstar

Except for the fact that in this thread Neal did not ask for anyones opinions on the ethics of him breeding his dog....

Unfortunately a publicly posted thread is subject to input by anyone, it's the whole point of public posting. And let's face it, it's not the first thread that has gone on a tangent, nor the last.
And the point of my posts, as well as Deb's, is to possibly inform potential puppy buyers of the problems brought about by backyard breeders and how it impacts the future lives of all dogs, in this case the puppies being bred as well as existing Bostons sitting in rescue right now, looking for a home.
Basically, hobbyist breeding of dogs is frowned upon by serious dog lovers, for a variety of reasons, and should be left to people that have dedicated years to their breeding program, resulting in improving the breed, not supplying a market demand.
This is not to suggest that anyone is a money grabbing puppy mill, but rather that perhaps many people in this position are ill-informed on the plight of the current dog population, much of which is a direct result of backyard, although well-meaning breeders.
And as a serious dog person, when something like this gets posted publicly, you're getting my opinion, solicited or not. And if just one person reading it thinks a bit harder about whether to breed or not, or where to purchase a puppy from, then I've contributed to the solution, not the problem.

[Chaloupa]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Unfortunately a publicly posted thread is subject to input by anyone, it's the whole point of public posting. And let's face it, it's not the first thread that has gone on a tangent, nor the last.
And the point of my posts, as well as Deb's, is to possibly inform potential puppy buyers of the problems brought about by backyard breeders and how it impacts the future lives of all dogs, in this case the puppies being bred as well as existing Bostons sitting in rescue right now, looking for a home.
Basically, hobbyist breeding of dogs is frowned upon by serious dog lovers, for a variety of reasons, and should be left to people that have dedicated years to their breeding program, resulting in improving the breed, not supplying a market demand.
This is not to suggest that anyone is a money grabbing puppy mill, but rather that perhaps many people in this position are ill-informed on the plight of the current dog population, much of which is a direct result of backyard, although well-meaning breeders.
And as a serious dog person, when something like this gets posted publicly, you're getting my opinion, solicited or not. And if just one person reading it thinks a bit harder about whether to breed or not, or where to purchase a puppy from, then I've contributed to the solution, not the problem.

Very well said.

And to the comment made "I can pretty much guarantee that very very few breeders would spend more time and attention to their dogs and puppies than what I am giving" by the OP...I am hoping this was said to indicate your dedication to your dogs rather than a slam at breeders. Most breeders I know, having worked in a very large veterinary hospital for 21 years were incredibly dedicated and loving with their litters.

This is a public forum where, just like ANY other public forum you will get the good and what you consider the bad response..there are many of us that are very passionate about people breeding animals of any kind....and with good reason. Many of us have extensive backgrounds with animals welfare and know the nasty statistics not just the cute statistics...just because all of the puppies get homes, DOES NOT mean that all those homes are going to be great, or that they are going to keep that dog, and that it will not end up in a shelter. That's where you can pray that it's a no kill shelter, and not one that has such a high turnover they can't keep them longer. Breeding dogs is about the next 16 years of each puppies life, not about selling them all and carrying on.

I do wish Ginger well...and hope that all the puppies are adopted into loving and long term households.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Chaloupa

Very well said.

And to the comment made "I can pretty much guarantee that very very few breeders would spend more time and attention to their dogs and puppies than what I am giving" by the OP...I am hoping this was said to indicate your dedication to your dogs rather than a slam at breeders. Most breeders I know, having worked in a very large veterinary hospital for 21 years were incredibly dedicated and loving with their litters.

to further this, a good breader raises the puppies in there home and is dedicated to socilizing them. the only breaders that are in business and don't give just as much time if not more are the puppy mills and such.
People seam to thing breaders are business orentated, it is quite the opposit for good breaders they are dog people who spend thousands of bucks showing there dogs, researching and finding the perfect matches for there program and spend more time with there dogs than anyone normal person would. I will use the breaders of my dog for example.. they dont even advertise there puppies as they have a 2 year waiting list. I was very very lucky to get Kona when I did as they had both males in the little sold befor they were born and then one had to cancle out and I was just there at the right time as I didn't care weather I got a male of female as long as it was a golden. and they knew the issues with my last dog and that the family was devistated we had to take her back to the SPCA after 3 months of trying to retrain her. so they called the next person waiting for a male and asked if he minded waiting for another litter and boom we had a puppy. even though I knew the breaders they still came to our home and did a home check and talked to all of us to get a feeling of weather we would be a good match for one of there puppies, so if that isn't caring about there dogs and where they go... I don't know what is.

Steve