LED lights

[Ron99]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

how many LED's you putting on that sucker ?? I think I am spending 600.00 total on a 30" long unit using 40 degree optics, and nothing was free or cheep..

the luxton stars were 1 watt leds, and at the time they were making the solaris they were cheeper than we can get the crees for, but that doesn't matter much.. what we get as a group buy is nothing compared to what a company can get things for. I know when I had my company going and I was looking at buying a significant quantity of something if I couldn't get it for about 1/3 of the retail price I would shop elsewhere. I never had to look around much. generaly I found there are 3 price ranges, retail, wholesale, and distrubitor. I am working on a deal right now that will get me distrubitor+ pricing on a produce that the rights to BA/AB with a few exclusions. nothing to do with the aquarium industry but the structure is the same.

Basicly I know a guy who has the canadian distrubution rights to a line of products, he has a few avenues that he sells directly to in a specific industry. I can sell to any industry but the one he sells directly to and my cost is his cost plus 10%. when I sell to a company I am oblagated to sell at a lower price than if I sold directly to the public otherwise why would a company buy the product to resell. so lets pick a number of 100 bucks. I buy the product for 110.00 because of my deal, so for wholesale I sell at 180 to 200. for retail I would charge 280.

with the group buys we are involved with in the diy fish tank things, we are dealing with retailers so the price we get is going to be better than if you go to a store and buy a product, but not anywhere near wholesale and distrubitor. now what would be ideal is if we had some one with a reg company that could contact cree sales directly and order a large volume. you would probably see the price down about 2 bucks a LED. same thing would apply to the heat sink, if I knew I would use 100 30X10 heat sinks, you could probably get at least 50% off the regular price and if you were to do some digging and find the smelter that actualy makes them and they are a generic die, not customer owned you could get them cheeper.

at anyrate I digress. the company PFO makes it, sends it to there distrubitors and then the distrubitors sell to the stores so something that costs 3500 in the store probably cost the store about 2500-3000 (usaly less mark up on expensive stuff), would cost the distrubitor rep about 1500 to 2000, and the company about 700 to 1000. if there made off shore then you can cut that number way down. I am just pulling numbers out of my a$$ here, but the idea is that there are usaly 3 or 4 steps along the way and usaly each one of thoes steps is 50 to 100% mark up on pricy things, and more on cheep things.

Steve

I'm going to use 80 to 85 LEDs and start with 60 degree optics but I have some 80 and 40 as well to try and may mix and match a bit to have some higher and lower PAR areas.

As for the Solaris, they were 3 watt luxeons. Here's a review of the first units:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/8/review2#h8

I did a bit of searching and it looks like the bare emitters sold for $3.45 each in quantities of 10,000 or more back in 2006. That doesn't include the cost of any MCPCB and mounting. I see where you are coming from and the reality is probably somewhere in between your estimate and mine. But there is more to a product then just the cost of the parts and while PFO may have been making a healthy gross margin on each fixture the volumes were probably low and then you still have to factor in all the overhead. So while expensive, the prices were probably in line for an expensive new technology that will sell in low numbers. I remember when 42" plasma TVs first came out in 1990 or so and they cost in excess of $25,000.

[Ron99]

I just realized my cost estimate is off as I have only spent about $1000 so far but will probably need another $100 worth of stuff to finish it off.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Ron99

I'm going to use 80 to 85 LEDs and start with 60 degree optics but I have some 80 and 40 as well to try and may mix and match a bit to have some higher and lower PAR areas.

what are you using for spacing? I just realized your tank is 18" front to back.. mine is 12" so that is going to add an extra row or two for ya.. so that why you need a lot more than I do.

you one thing I don't like about the DIY leds is how ugly the bottoms look. I wish there was an easy way to cover that up so you don't see all the wires.

are you making an enclosur for yours or just leaving the heat sink bare?

Steve

[Ron99]

I figured 4 rows 3" apart and 2" to 2.25" spacing in each row. I may also include a few UV LEDs along the centerline. I haven't laid it out yet. I finally received my last supplies including some Berquist adhesive thermal pads. That will be easier then drilling and tapping 160 holes

I have a Hamilton light fixture housing (I think it may have been a MH fixture once) I plan to use to enclose it all and it has a bottom cover with acrylic splash shield

[PACMAN416]

Hello Gentlemen,

Quick question. what size heatsink should i run for a 50 gallon tank. 36Lx18Wx18H. and how many LEDs will do it for me. and just wondering where you guys found large heatsinks in Canada! all i hear about is heatsinksusa, but i would rather buy it from a canadian supplier.

you guys should document your builds!!!!


Thanks for your future reply!

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by PACMAN416

Hello Gentlemen,

Quick question. what size heatsink should i run for a 50 gallon tank. 36Lx18Wx18H. and how many LEDs will do it for me. and just wondering where you guys found large heatsinks in Canada! all i hear about is heatsinksusa, but i would rather buy it from a canadian supplier.

you guys should document your builds!!!!


Thanks for your future reply!

I was going to buy mine from heatsink USA myself.. didn't find anything like that in canada.

as for the amount of LED's it depends on how much light you want. so like anything else what are you intentions for the tank.

Steve

[Ron99]

I will start a build thread as soon as I start to build it

For heatsinks, I found some used ones on eBay. I bought three that were 12" by 15" in size so that will give me good coverage over 48" x 18". For your tank you will probably need something around 12 to 13 inches wide and 28 to 30 inches long.

And as Steve said, the number and spacing of LEDs along with what optics to use will depend on what your stocking plans are. I am using 4 rows spaced 3 inches apart front to back and then the LED spacing along each row will be 2.25" with 60 degree optics. That should give me similar or slightly better performance to a set up using 2 x 250W MH. You could go with 40 degree optics but then your spacing needs to be no further apart then 2" between LEDs in the rows and that would probably give you PAR equivalent to a 400W MH. Probably overkill in an 18" deep tank. I may use 80 degree optics in a few areas or set it up so i can dim it by sectors to have some lower PAR sections for LPS etc.

If I were setting one up for a reef in a tank your size I would probably do 4 rows of 12 or 13 emitters with 60 degree optics.

[PACMAN416]

thanks for the reply! i was thinking 4 rows of 12 as well. so 60 degree optics will give me the light i need to grow anything? (sps, lps, softies, clams, anemones)? I shall begin my planning asap if this is the case!


also, i wish i lived in BC! love the rockies!
also, also, I will definitely be watching your build! (I have a 75 gallon freshwater, that i may, in the future, convert to saltwater, once i get the hang of things on this 50G build)!

[Ron99]

Sounds like a good plan. Try to get dimmable drivers so you can adjust the lighting for acclimation etc. If you get ambitious you can make a controller to do fancy sunrise and sunset, cloudy periods etc.

BTW, where are you in Etobicoke? I grew up right around Dixon Rd. and Kipling. Been on the west coast for 18.5 years now so I guess I have assimilated.

[PACMAN416]

I'm technologically inept. a controller would be amazing, but i dont think i could do it. maybe in the future. Small world, I'm at Kipling and princess margaret!