100+ Red Mangrove Pods GROUP ORDER

[sphelps]

I'm pretty sure you can't import mangroves from Hawaii, they are a protected species there.

I understand the concept of making money when you're putting effort in but I don't think it's fair to do this on this site unless you're a supporting vendor. Arranging group orders is one thing but you're simply ordering from a wholesaler and reselling at retail pricing, and you're not even legally importing them. In my books what you're doing is unethical in more than one way. If a vendor advertised selling livestock without the proper permits he would get chewed up, actually this just recently happened.

*****edited******

[Chin_Lee]

This thread was removed for a period of time to look into some concerns that were raised. After some time to ponder these concerns, there are several issues here to which I will address.

Firstly the vendor status - if this is a one time purchase of an item, we do not see an issue with this.

Secondly - re: the profit margin in doing a group buy. There is nothing written in stone anywhere about the profit margin "allowed" before its considered profitable to be financially advantageous. Having said that, the prices at $6 each, or $5 each or $4 each are NOT retail prices for these items. They are at about 1/3 - 1/2 of retail. Although the prices are not retail and definitely at a discount, will there be sufficient profit for a moderator to intervene due to conflicting interest with vendors? Again, as previously stated, because this is a one-time basis and other members DO have the option to order directly from the source, I do not feel that a moderator needs to intervene at this time.

Thirdly - re: unethical practices. It is not clear on the practice in which the package will cross the border. However, if it is properly labelled by the shipper on the contents of the package AND the package was put through the mail system where CBSA inspectors are tasked to monitor and inspect these packages based on the item description, and at the CBSA officers' discretion they allowed the package in the country to be delivered, then it is at the CBSA officer's discretion that the package arrives in Canada without the proper phytosanitary permits. Ethically it is not good practice BUT nor is it illegal and the chances of the package arriving is based on pure luck. I relate to this in the way I purchase items from China on Ebay in which technically and LEGALLY I am suppose to pay PST/GST on the items I purchased. But at the discretion of the CBSA inspectors, majority of the time they will allow the item to go through even on items i should have had to pay $40-$50 of taxes.
Having said that, there is a HUGE risk involved here in that the CBSA officer will likely inspect if plant material is noted on the item declaration. Personally I wouldn't not take this risk but if a person so chooses to risk their money, then its at their discretion.
Also its been noted that if these are brought in as PODS ONLY, then it is legal and if it is sprouting leaves, it is not considered legal. I had personal experience with other plants with similar circumstances and it had the same legal "concerns".

Fourthly, the selling of protected item from Hawaii - IF we are to assume the seller is collecting them from the wild, then this is definitely illegal and it is also unethical to buy. BUT before we jump to any conclusions and begin accusing people of wrong-doings, we should show diligence in getting more information from the seller who MAY have a permit to collect and sell the mangroves. If he doesn't have a permit or proper reason to be selling these, it should then be addressed to EBAY and the seller of the item. This is not the moderators job to investigate so ALL PARTIES please show ddinitiative to gather some more information before claiming allegations of wrong-doing.

This thread is re-activated and it will be monitored accordingly.

[Seamazter]

Thankyou canreef.

[blueyota]

Levi if your still getting the mangroves i will still take some

[kien]

Originally Posted by sphelps

I'm pretty sure you can't import mangroves from Hawaii, they are a protected species there.

Hmm I wonder why.. since they are not native to Hawaii and the University of Hawaii Botany Department classifies them as pests

Furthermore, it is out of control in some parts of Hawaii. In several places throughout Hawaii, volunteers are asked to help clear out the mangroves by cutting them down.

I was in Hawaii not too long ago

[new but handy]

****edited*******
http://www.issg.org/database/species...leu/Rauzon.pdf
here are some facts
They are not even a native species so I don't know why they would be protected

[Zoaelite]

Wow I can't believe how much of an ordeal this has stirred up, thank you for jumping to my aid everyone but we all mess up facts once in a while so there is no need to chastise sphelps (As morally unethical as I might still exist in his books). I will continue with the order for all those that are interested, please PM me with your orders and post here that way I coordinate everything with some certainty.
Thank You!
Levi

[Seamazter]

10 please good sir.

[sphelps]

Mangroves are a protected species in Florida and not Hawaii, I apologize for getting those mixed up.

I am pretty sure you'll still need a phytosanitary certificate to get them legally across the boarder, they may technically be seeds but that's not necessarily what customs will consider them. The first time I ordered them they where destroyed at the boarder because I was unaware of the requirement. The next time I got the certificate which I recomend getting as it only costs around $50 and the supplier should be able to supply it for you.

Off topic but I just wanted to mention that vendors will charge between $10-$15 for plants because they have invested time and money into growing them out, the more mature the plant the higher the price. Pods will usually sell for $5 to $10 at most. The fact that ordering from wholesalers and reselling at a higher price is considered acceptable provided the price is below retail kind of surprises me. It's pretty easy to sell things for less when overhead doesn't exist. Of course I don't make the rules but I sure am glad I'm not a vendor.

So following the rules would it be acceptable for me to organize group orders from other livestock wholesalers? I mean provided I keep the prices below standard retail

[Zoaelite]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Mangroves are a protected species in Florida and not Hawaii, I apologize for getting those mixed up.

I am pretty sure you'll still need a phytosanitary certificate to get them legally across the boarder, they may technically be seeds but that's not necessarily what customs will consider them. The first time I ordered them they where destroyed at the boarder because I was unaware of the requirement. The next time I got the certificate which I recomend getting as it only costs around $50 and the supplier should be able to supply it for you.

Off topic but I just wanted to mention that vendors will charge between $10-$15 for plants because they have invested time and money into growing them out, the more mature the plant the higher the price. Pods will usually sell for $5 to $10 at most. The fact that ordering from wholesalers and reselling at a higher price is considered acceptable provided the price is below retail kind of surprises me. It's pretty easy to sell things for less when overhead doesn't exist. Of course I don't make the rules but I sure am glad I'm not a vendor.

So following the rules would it be acceptable for me to organize group orders from other livestock wholesalers? I mean provided I keep the prices below standard retail

Again, as previously stated, because this is a one-time basis and other members DO have the option to order directly from the source, I do not feel that a moderator needs to intervene at this time.

Sphelps please drop it, I'm not sure where this need for vindication is coming from but I am far from reeling in the cash on this. It started with me needing a whack load of mangroves for myself, I asked if anyone else wanted any and I got an incredible about of interest at the price that I posted. I simply exist as the middle man for a one time transaction. As far as LFS investing time in growing out mangroves/ pods if there was a shop in Calgary selling them for $5.00 I would of purchased the pods locally. Pods that have taken root and starting growing leaves don't handle transport that well so its preferential to purchase them in the pod state and let them grow to your system.
Levi